Gimbal mounts using Litko peg toppers

**Captain Chum** · 12-23-2013 14:22

Hey everyone thought I would share my solution to gimbal mounting.

I know there are a few versions of mounting them here in the forum and I did a search to make sure my method was not already envisioned by someone else. I could not find anything similar so If I missed something my apologies.

Basically there are two kinds of methods I find here on the forum.
1. Mounting without cutting the peg off the bottom of the plane and drilling a hole.
2. Mounting methods that keep from cutting off the peg and drilling a hole in your plane.

I agree that since the planes are fixed in relation to their distribution and thus are not considered “collector’s items” they do have some value. Also the fact that drilling a hole in my plane did not appeal to me, I went with number two above.

I did not want to get into cutting and modifying the pegs too much and found my solution. That solution is: Litko - Flight Peg Toppers that are Wings of War Compatible

I mount the ball in the hole on the peg topper that is for the Litko flight stand.

If interested in them you can check them out here:http://www.miniaturemarket.com/ltkaf...l#.UritKLTDuKI

The next dilemma was the smoke and flame markers.
I had already purchased several from the Aerodrome Store and did not want them to go to waste. So my method to solve this problem was to bore the hole out on the marker and insert the magnet mount. Doing it this way saved me from alternating any pegs to make them work and by doing it this way the markers stay put.
After putting the marker on top the peg, that magnet serves as my mount for the ball.

If you guys are interested in how I did this I can write up a “how to” in a few days.

**gully_raker** · 12-23-2013 14:26

G'day Kelly!
Now that is a very neat idea.

**fast.git** · 12-23-2013 14:38

Originally Posted by Captain Chum

If you guys are interested in how I did this I can write up a “how to” in a few days.

Please. Neat idea... I like the look of these.

**crashx** · 12-23-2013 15:39

A new idea using existing items!!!! Well done Kelly!!!

**greenalfonzo** · 12-23-2013 16:21

Great thinking, I really like it!

**Scott** · 12-23-2013 16:56

I would also like to see a "How-to" write up.

**MoonSylver** · 12-23-2013 19:31

Very nice Kelly! Another solution that I haven't seen before.

**Captain Chum** · 12-23-2013 20:31

Thank you gents.....I will get to work on the "how to" article.

**Naharaht** · 12-23-2013 21:02

A very clever idea. Well done, Kelly!

**DJBAR** · 12-23-2013 21:54

Great idea! Thanks for posting! I purchased magnets from the Aerodrome Store months ago and have succeeded in getting only one finished using the peg-cutting method. Now I have an easier solution.

**Brambo** · 12-24-2013 01:50

Great idea Kelly, look forward to the How To. Have you tried it on larger aircraft, Albatross etc? Just wondering if when you bank or climb it stays in place.

**Blackronin** · 12-24-2013 02:40

Excellent idea. An "How to"?

**Captain Chum** · 12-24-2013 11:50

Originally Posted by Brambo

Great idea Kelly, look forward to the How To. Have you tried it on larger aircraft, Albatross etc? Just wondering if when you bank or climb it stays in place.

Most excellent question. I had not tested it on all of the aircraft. When condcuting further testing the mount did fail with certain aircraft.
The large two seater Breguets failed. The Albatross's wheels get in the way of the peg topper and has to be turned around. This causes some instability.

However, I have my elves working hard in the Research and Development lab and believe we have a simple solution.
More to follow.

**Пилот** · 12-25-2013 05:37

Great idea, but it came to late for my squadrons...

**Horse4261** · 12-25-2013 07:20

One of the best ideas I have seen. Have tried the flight peg cutting idea but not much luck. I think your idea of using the topper is great.

**VonBlucher** · 12-25-2013 07:53

Kelly,
I thought of this also prior to cutting and sawing the pins off all my planes. Since I have a few Albatross, I came to the same conclusion with the wheels. I hope you work it out though.

This should work well with most 2 seaters though as you've moved the center of gravity forward. If you have issues with stability on the 2 seaters, I noticed if you apply a thin layer of super glue to the ball bearing and this works fairly well with my 2 seaters on gimbal mounts. Have you tried this on any of the bombers yet?

John

**richarddaystrom** · 12-25-2013 08:23

Outstanding. Thank you for sharing.

**Captain Chum** · 12-25-2013 14:39

Okay, the elves have returned back from the R&D lab with the results:
It looks like the answer is bigger balls. For the sake of this report I will refer to the balls simply as "bearings"

The elves came up with the idea that larger bearings would do the trick. So I went to the local hardware store and purchased some 1/4" and 5/16" sizes. The price for these were .19 and .25 cents respectively.
Keith may want to chime in here but the bearings from his set look to be around 3/16"

This test had two goals.
1. Staying power
2. Utilizing the magnets that come with the set sold in the Aerodrome Store so as to not buy different sizes.

So I mounted the different sized bearings on the peg toppers. I tested the different sizes with some different sized planes. Below is the results. The results were very good.

Also want to note what the definition of "staying power" in the results mean.
Staying Power means that the aircraft stays in place when it is not being moved and when moved with normal movement and placement. Of course if you take your plane and place it with force or tap it sharply when moving it the plane will move. With this type of mounting system I don't believe their is any magnet strong enough to hold the plane in place if you are rough with moving them during game play.

I tested the planes on different bearings.....moving the flight stands around several times and in different directions to see if the bearings would hold the plane in place under normal game movement.

Breguets 5/16 bearing = above 90% staying power
The Breguets would stay in place when not being moved but would move slightly on occasion when placing the flight stand in different positions.

De Havilland & AIRCO DH.4 ¼ bearing = 100% staying power

SPAD ¼ bearing = 100% staying power

AIRCO D.H.2 5/16 bearing = 100%staying power

Camel 3/16 bearing = 100% staying power

Aviatik D.I ¼ bearing = 100% staying power

Halberstadt D.III 5/16 bearing = 100% staying power

Albatross 5/16 bearing = 100 % staying power Yes, the peg toppers clear the wheels.

Siemens-Schuckert D.III ¼ bearing = 100% staying power

Rumpler C.IV C. ¼ bearing = 100% staying power

You will notice that the poses of the planes are in "diving" positions. Since the peg topper is not in the planes center of gravity, and if the bearing is not big enough, the plane generally takes a nose dive. Some planes could use smaller bearings when standing in place but would quickly take a nose dive when moved. Result was going to the larger bearing.
Also if you did not want to mess with different sizes you could just work off the largest bearing.

Failed results:
Of the planes that I have, The Roland failed even with the largest bearing. So back to testing with this one. The hardware store had larger bearings but not sure if the peg topper from Litko will be big enough for it. The Roland for this scale weighs very heavy.
The Ufag C.I plane failed because of the wheels. I am sure in relation to the weight and size of this plane one of the bearings will work. The peg topper needs to be modified at the corners of if to get it to fit in between the wheels.

**Jager** · 12-25-2013 14:58

Interesting. Thanks for playing scientist on Christmas.
I will definitely look into this system.

karl

**Blackronin** · 12-25-2013 15:16

Thanks for the experiment. It was very useful.

**fast.git** · 12-25-2013 15:54

Thanks for the experimenting. Just by happenstance (not), I've placed an order for the Litko peg-toppers and will find my way to the friendly, neighborhood hardware store tomorrow.

Brilliant work, sir!

**Captain Chum** · 12-25-2013 20:26

Originally Posted by Jager

Interesting. Thanks for playing scientist on Christmas.
I will definitely look into this system.

karl

The wife and I celebrated Christmas with our kids last weekend due to scheduling conflicts. So today, was a day for us to just hang out. Also to break out my toys.....no other day like today to break out the toys.

**Captain Chum** · 12-25-2013 20:28

Originally Posted by fast.git

Thanks for the experimenting. Just by happenstance (not), I've placed an order for the Litko peg-toppers and will find my way to the friendly, neighborhood hardware store tomorrow.

Brilliant work, sir!

Sounds great Christopher.
I want to see if I can get that Roland airborne with this system and then write up that "how to"

Next will be how to get those giants to bank in a turn.

**Willi Von Klugermann** · 12-25-2013 21:02

Great idea Kelly.

**Jager** · 12-26-2013 00:18

For the Rolands: did you try roughing up the bearing? It's been mentioned in previous threads on the gimbal mounts.
Karl'

**flash** · 12-26-2013 01:58

It's easier to 'rough up' the surface of the bearing using something like crazy glue; this will stop it slipping or Col Hajj's elegant solution of using eraser detritus in the hole of the base magnet that puts the brakes on slippage !
Good ideas Kelly

**Brambo** · 12-26-2013 04:39

Thanks Kelly, I will have to order some toppers and try your method.

**Captain Chum** · 12-26-2013 05:40

Originally Posted by Jager

For the Rolands: did you try roughing up the bearing? It's been mentioned in previous threads on the gimbal mounts.
Karl'

Not yet, my goal was to have it to be a more 'plug and play' system. So wanted to try all the easy stuff before I have to get specialized with certain aircraft.

**fast.git** · 12-26-2013 06:58

Originally Posted by flash

...or Col Hajj's elegant solution of using eraser detritus in the hole of the base magnet that puts the brakes on slippage !

That is rather elegant... I'll need to git it a go.

**VonBlucher** · 12-26-2013 07:38

Kelly,
Definitely interest in if this works for the bombers utilizing the larger ball bearings.

John

**Oberst Hajj** · 12-27-2013 07:01

Very nice work Kelly! Now that I have a laser setting on the desk next to me, perhaps I can design a "topper" especially for the Gimbal Mounts that fits and works with all the planes. I'll also have to research the larger bearings and see how much better they hold compared to how they look on the table. Good stuff man.

**fast.git** · 12-27-2013 07:05

Originally Posted by Oberst Hajj

Very nice work Kelly! Now that I have a laser setting on the desk next to me, perhaps I can design a "topper" especially for the Gimbal Mounts that fits and works with all the planes. I'll also have to research the larger bearings and see how much better they hold compared to how they look on the table. Good stuff man.

**Captain Chum** · 12-27-2013 12:02

Originally Posted by Oberst Hajj

Very nice work Kelly! Now that I have a laser setting on the desk next to me, perhaps I can design a "topper" especially for the Gimbal Mounts that fits and works with all the planes. I'll also have to research the larger bearings and see how much better they hold compared to how they look on the table. Good stuff man.

Thank you Sir Oberst.
To have a "universal topper" would be very nice.

Below you will see that I had to cut the corners off the Litko peg topper so that it would fit in-between the wheels.

Ufag pictured with the 5/16 bearing.

**Captain Chum** · 12-27-2013 12:10

Well I went back to the hardware store and picked up a couple larger sizes of bearings. 3/8 and 7/16.....which are the next two sizes up from the largest that I tested with....the 5/16 bearing.

I had the Roland in mind for the 3/8 bearing and it worked.

Simulated a lot of game movement on the stand and the Roland stayed in place nicely.

I purchased the 7/16 bearing with the bombers in mind. Will see what I can come up with those.

**Oberst Hajj** · 12-27-2013 12:28

When you are testing these, are you banking and diving them when you move them around the table, or having them flight straight and level when you move them?

**fast.git** · 12-27-2013 12:52

Quite the interesting trials...

**Captain Chum** · 12-27-2013 13:02

Originally Posted by Oberst Hajj

When you are testing these, are you banking and diving them when you move them around the table, or having them flight straight and level when you move them?

Moving them around in different banking and diving positions.

**Oberst Hajj** · 12-27-2013 15:45

Originally Posted by Captain Chum

Moving them around in different banking and diving positions.

Thanks, that's what I thought.

**Naharaht** · 12-27-2013 17:05

I have mounted some ball bearings using soft plastic washers I bought at Maplins. They are easy to cut. I will try posting some pictures when I get home from my brother's.

**Captain Chum** · 12-27-2013 17:58

Originally Posted by Naharaht

I have mounted some ball bearings using soft plastic washers I bought at Maplins. They are easy to cut. I will try posting some pictures when I get home from my brother's.

Very interested to see your result.

**Captain Chum** · 12-27-2013 18:05

In my first post I stated this: "I know there are a few versions of mounting them here in the forum and I did a search to make sure my method was not already envisioned by someone else. I could not find anything similar so If I missed something my apologies."

Well after looking down at the bottom of this page under similar missions, it looks as though I was not the first.
http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sho...ko-peg-toppers
Looks like Stuart and Ian stumbled on this before I did.
So if you guys are reading this I was wondering if you had any thing or ideas to add.

Also still working on the "how to" article.

**fast.git** · 12-27-2013 19:58

Originally Posted by Naharaht

I have mounted some ball bearings using soft plastic washers I bought at Maplins. They are easy to cut. I will try posting some pictures when I get home from my brother's.

Originally Posted by Captain Chum

Very interested to see your result.

As am I.

**Brambo** · 12-28-2013 00:59

This is great work Kelly, thanks for all the investigations. We are all going to benefit from this, thanks.

**BobP** · 12-28-2013 13:15

Great idea for mounting. I have 1/144 planes I have mounted on Litko pegs with rings I get on line. Thanks for another idea on mounting.

**Captain Chum** · 12-30-2013 11:09

Thanks guys.

With the 3/8 bearing for the Roland, this size of bearing also works for the Breguets.

Almost got the How to done.

**fast.git** · 12-30-2013 11:13

Originally Posted by Captain Chum

Almost got the How to done.

Outstanding news!

**Flying Helmut** · 01-01-2014 15:44

Originally Posted by Captain Chum

Almost got the How to done.

Great - looking forward to this!

**Captain Chum** · 01-05-2014 14:04

Sorry for any delay. Writing the tutorial is actually harder than making the mounts

The tutorial is uploaded but The file is in the moderation queue so may be awhile before anyone can check it out.

Also part of the delay was that I wanted to do some more testing.
Updates
The De Havillands/Airco DH.4's to the 5/16 bearing.

The Fokker is also updated to the 1/4 bearing.....allows for more maneuverability on the magnet.

The AIRCO D.H.2 planes will need the Litko peg topper modified like the Ufag for best results.

The camels are the only ones I have left using the 3/16 bearing. However after the hole in the Litko peg topper becomes broken in you may have to
cut/sand an angle off the bearing side of it so it does not rub on the wheel supports.

I made notes of the above information in the tutorial.

Some folks were wanting some table views. I have attached a couple here but I have created an album on my profile if you want to see the rest.

I have also been working on the Bombers.....I believe I have that figured out. Bombers have passed all testing so far....stay tuned.

**Brambo** · 01-05-2014 15:02

Can't wait to read the How-To, thanks for all your hard work.

**Captain Chum** · 01-06-2014 10:22

Originally Posted by Brambo

Can't wait to read the How-To, thanks for all your hard work.

I did make a mistake....in the last section refering to installing the magnets in the flame and smoke markers.

I had stated to use a 15/64 drill bit. I thought that was the drill bit I was using (my table is full of bits and parts). Anyway, it suppose to be a 1/4 size bit.

I have deleted the tutorial that I uploaded and reloaded it with the correct bit size.

So for those who have already downloaded it change the 15/64 drill bit size to 1/4 bit size.