B-25c Mission with Mustang escort

**Marechallannes** · 12-17-2013 13:54

We played a bombing mission with two Japanese Kawaski KI-61 fighters (B/BB Nakano and AC/BCC Kobayashi) as interceptors and a B-25c (Bauer) with a P51-D (Landers) as escort fighter.

Two targets with an D-firing AA gun in the middle.

We used altitude rules (starting Level 4), heavy bombload rule (only slow speed with bombs on board) and the aim optional rule for the fighters (not for gunners).

The US attackers started over the coast, the Japanese defenders in front of the targets.

I controlled the US planes. Two of my gaming buddies controlled the Japanese.

My first mistake was to misjudge the speed of the P-51 flying towards fast approaching KI-61s.

I raged with high speed through the two Japs and missed to shoot at them.

An Immelmann and a Split-S later I had outmaneuvered myself and the Japs were close on te bombres tail.

The first AA shell missed my B-25c. Due to evasive maneuvers and altitude changes the bomb drop damaged the bridge only.

We removed the target card.

The second AA shot was a hit (fortunately a „0“) and the bomber started to fly back with a right curve.

The Japs closed in for half distance shots.

My Mustang finally came in range again.

The better armed KI-61 suffered an engine damage and choosed the wrong direction to follow the bomber.

So it was a duel between the B/BB KI-61 and the B-25C. My buddy learned a hard lesson when he passed the bombers’s side. Turret and front gun perforated the KI-61. It received a pilot hit and the engine started to smoke.

The Jap was persistent, made an Immelmann and a frontal attack.

The damage they gave each other were to much. Both were shot down.

We finished the game as a draw.

The shot down KI-61 had bad luck with the drawn damage counters. 18 damage points finished the flight.

B-25c received 33 damage points. The D-damage missed.

Nice mission.

New plane, same old problem of controling a fighter and a bomber the same time.

The P-51D ist fast but the KI-61 have a good top speed to.

This wasn’t a real dogfight mission between the series V Mustang and the series III KI-61. The Japanese had the B-25c as fixation. I really misjudged the speed of the P-51D and failed as my own escort.

As soon as my second P-51D arrives (already ordered

), I need to test a pair of Mustangs versus the KI-61s or the Reggiane Re.2001s.

**7eat51** · 12-17-2013 14:23

Fun read, Sven. You are whetting my appetite for our upcoming campaign.

I belong to the group that misjudges - misery loves company.

In WGF, I find that if I start a turn with a turning maneuver followed by straights, I am often off course by the end of the turn. I am learning about speed as well with the Spad. That plane is fast. I need to fly planes around some just to get a better feel for their decks.

**gully_raker** · 12-17-2013 14:28

I had that "speed" problem in the first WW2 game I ever played with Carl at Cancon last year. Just flew my Aussie Spitfires right past the Bettys & was then always on the back foot!

**Flying Officer Kyte** · 12-20-2013 03:19

Happens to us all at times Sven.
The sole reason I lost that last bomber in our OTT campaign was because my two scouts could not match its speed, overflew it, and left it a victim for the only Hun machine left on the table.

Rob.

**David Manley** · 12-20-2013 03:25

"escort" is one of those concepts that WGF/S players often find tricky, in my experience

**7eat51** · 12-20-2013 06:43

Originally Posted by David Manley

"escort" is one of those concepts that WGF/S players often find tricky, in my experience

What's the solution?

What I have found in WGF is the lure of dogfights often sidetrack folks from strategic considerations. Outside of speed considerations, I think the same thing could happen with fighters leaving bombers unattended to chase interceptors that are moving away from the bombers.

**Marechallannes** · 12-20-2013 07:21

Stay near of the bomber. (don't collide

)

Hunt the enemy plane that goes for the bomber.

Difficult enough for a mission like above, but you see I didn't manage to hunt down a single enemy fighter with my escort.

**fast.git** · 12-20-2013 08:06

Originally Posted by David Manley

"escort" is one of those concepts that WGF/S players often find tricky, in my experience

I resemble that comment...

**Brambo** · 12-20-2013 08:07

I know what you mean Sven, when I was flying two Japanese torpedo bombers, belonging to Neil, I had terrible trouble getting them ti line up on their targets. At one point I had to overfly the target and come round again. More practice needed but lots of fun. Great AAR.

**FrankJamison** · 12-29-2013 18:57

Good battle report. And it gives me something too look out for.

**Marechallannes** · 12-30-2013 00:00

Thank you comrades.

Frank, I can't answer your PM. Your post box is full.

**richard m schwab** · 12-30-2013 10:31

Attachment 118380Sven

A very nice report! Overly aggressive escorts are often out of position. In our games a tight formation of bombers and escorts is effective. Most fighter drivers think a offense is the best defense. The best defense is close cooperation! Try this trick limit all escorting fighters to slow speed, they do not wonder away as much!

Rich

**fast.git** · 12-30-2013 10:57

Now that's what I call a "meeting engagement!"

Looks as though the Zeros are woefully outnumbered... how'd it end?

**richard m schwab** · 12-30-2013 18:31

Christopher

That is the second turn of combat. There were two Zeros in that lower group the turn before.

The two blue striped one discovered that SBD`s have tail guns!

The two US attack groups fared differently. That near group stayed tight and flew straight to the target ships. They got shot up by AA fire but hit the target. I think one Wildcat went down after taking hits from the Zeros and AA fire. The far group drew the Zeros attention and lost both Wildcats for two Zeros. One SBD was shot down. This group was over the target first. AA fire brought down the second SBD after it had made it`s attack.

Rich

**fast.git** · 12-30-2013 19:14

Quite the scrap! Thanks for the summary...

SBDs can be a tough nut if flown well..., and underestimated!

And, now that I look more closely, I really like the look of the "water" you're using. I'm assuming it's felt, but the pattern is unlike any I've seen. I'm going to have to look again.

**richard m schwab** · 12-31-2013 07:00

Christopher

I will answer your question first. The water and land are both cloth purchased at Wally World

for under a $5 a yard. They also sell a heat activated two sided tape, that requires a iron and ironing board to. The cloth has a white border i folded the edge under and created a nice edge. Unfolded it laid down the tape refolded it follow the directions on the tape package. I did the same thing to three or four pieces and made a nice looking water surface. The tape allows you to make as large an area as you need. If you look in my albums you will see several from past games.
After Midway the Navy was strapped for dive bomber pilots. They transferred experienced fighter pilots to dive bombers squadrons. In combat some of those SBD pilots returned to their roots and successfully engaged the Japanese fighters.

Rich

http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/album.php?u=561

**Marechallannes** · 12-31-2013 13:59

Thank you for your advice, Richard.

I'll try next time to stay more close to the bombers, even if it's hard to wait for the bandits.

**richard m schwab** · 01-01-2014 05:29

Sven

That will help. In a game we played three years ago four B-25`s made an attack. They flew in a line astern formation, with a P-38 and a P-47 for escort. The defenders
were flying FW-190A`s and a ME-262. The escorts took off after the defenders which allowed the bombers to approach the target. The defending fighters caught with the bombers over the target area. As each B-25 made it`s attack it made a hard left turn and headed home which made u shaped formation that a FW flew in the middle of. All those .50 `s shot him down. The 262 came in and shot down one B-25 in one attack! Check out the album link below.

Rich

http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/album.php?albumid=549

**Lt. S.Kafloc** · 01-01-2014 09:31

We had the same problem in reverse at RECON (Kaneohe Bay) that Trev mentioned. All the attackers had mission targets primary and secondary and they stayed on task (Simon even crashed one of his Val's into the hangers to take it out). The attackers (2 x P40's) were constantly overshooting their slower prey and missing. An all the attackers ignored the B25 trying to land!

**richard m schwab** · 01-01-2014 10:57

Neil

I ran a game at Williamsburg Muster last year loosely based on the air battles over Wow New Guinea. The Japanese target was Wows airfield. As the game started two C-47`s were on the ground they took off on the second turn. Two Oscars and two Zeros escorted four Sallies in the attack. Two P-39`s and Two P-40`s defended. One of the Oscars went chasing after the C-47`s and did only minor damage before the left the table. The Zeros shot up the defenders and the bombers hit their target AA fire brought down one over the target and the other two limped away. A P-38 arrived to reenforce the defenders, the bombers were shot down before it arrived and the the lone Oscar took one look and ran for home.

Moral of the story stay close to the bombers!

Rich