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Thread: Explosion.

  1. #51

    Kashirigi's Avatar



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    I don't like the explosion card; I usually play with it removed. That said, in my very first game I ended up winning due to it, so I suppose I owe it a debt of gratitude.

    After that game I went and purchased the game for myself and apparently never looked back.

  2. #52

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    I recently played two planes in a game at a convention.. The first time both planes took damage, they both pulled the explosion card (in the same turn). Additionally another pilot on the same side received the explosion card on the following turn. (This was two A decks "shuffled" together) I can guess that the cards were not well shuffled or that it was just an amazingly rare set of events, but when this happens, I have to question leaving the cards in the damage decks. It can actually sway the game balance quite dramatically when one side loses three planes almost instantly, especially on turn 3 or 4 as in the case above. On one hand its exciting to have the explosion cards in play, but they all too often come out as the first damage card is pulled for a plane. This has hit me 5+ times over the past few months and I don't get to play all that often. I don't like pulling the cards from the mix as it seems to mess up the odds of taking damage from the deck. I have used them as 10 point cards or as 1 point higher than the highest card in damage deck. I have also considered pulling the same number of "0" cards from the deck to balance it out if the explosion cards are removed. After observing the chaos these cards can create in a convention game and with players, I am leaning toward making them all worth 7 points of damage. Additionally if you get it while on fire it really is an explosion. This makes it a bad card to pull but allows the player some possibility of recovery or escape. I really think how its played should depend on the game being played. If its a few friends at the house or the local game store, I'd leave them in and played per the rules. At a large convention game or in a campaign, I'd think about modifying the rules a bit like making them a 7 point damage card. When introducing new players, I'd pull them out of the deck altogether.

  3. #53

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    Play how you want to play. Our group leaves the explosion in, it represents sudden catastrophic events that cause your plane to crash, from explosion to getting a bullet between the eyes.

    It evens out over the long run. Remember this game was designed for 1 to 2 planes on a side, if you fly more than that, you need to add more damage decks, that evens out the explosions.

  4. #54

    mobley_p38
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    Explosion cards are a definite Yea for me as they add the realistic probability of a plane going down due to a catastrophic failure of some sort after an engagement. I too prefer to use the damage counters in more of like "Scrabble tile" fashion where they are randomly drawn from a bag (1 bag for A counters, 1 bag for B counters, etc). I find it's best to try to keep the damage tiles in proper proportion of planes, so the initial probability of different types of damage remains the same for various engagements. Otherwise, as others have posted the counters get stacked unfavorably or favorably.

  5. #55

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    I don't use the "BOOM card" at all -- I cannot express the depths of my loathing for "instant death" rules in games forcefully enough without violating local anti-profanity strictures. I believe there *is* a place for "zero to dead", but it should only be a result of the application of Overkill (for ex., a Nieuport 11 attacks a ground target, and takes a C-deck hit -- *that* is legitimate "instant death", if it draws a bignum card). However, by and large, an E.I should not be able to defeat a SPAD 13, even by luck-of-the-draw.

  6. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by csadn View Post
    However, by and large, an E.I should not be able to defeat a SPAD 13, even by luck-of-the-draw.
    So, it is not possible for the bullets fired from the E.I to hit and kill the pilot of a SPAD 13 on the first firing pass of the E.I?

  7. #57

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    I hated the explosion card for a while. However, the more that one reads of the exploits of the airmen of the time, the more one realizes that "falling out of the sky" for one reason or another, was an every day occurrence. Therefore, it should be reflected in our play. I didn't just say that, did I?
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  8. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by Col. Hajj View Post
    So, it is not possible for the bullets fired from the E.I to hit and kill the pilot of a SPAD 13 on the first firing pass of the E.I?

    ...or penatrate the fuel tank.

    I find the fear/hate of the explosion card funny. Last week I lost one of my double aces to it. It's part of the fun and it's the great equalizer. A green pilot still has the chance of dropping an ace.
    Last edited by LGKR; 05-21-2010 at 03:35.

  9. #59

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    I posted this several months ago in the Historical Discussions section:

    It's a reminder that even the best pilot/plane can be shot down by even the oldest, most obsolete plane, on the first pass ... so yes... use of the explosion cards are relevant and proper for Wings of War:

    6 July, 1917. A flight of obsolescent FE2ds was ambushed by Richthofen and a number of other pilots from Jagdgeschwader 1. In the fight that followed two of the German Albatros scouts attacked head-on an FE2d piloted by Captain Donald Cunnell accompanied by his observer Second Lieutenant Albert Woodbridge, who would not forget the encounter that ensued:

    I recall there wasn't a thing on that machine that wasn't red, and God, how he could fly! I opened fire with the front Lewis and so did Cunnell with the side gun. Cunnell held the FE to her course, and so did the pilot of the all-red scout. Gad, with our combined speeds, we must have been approaching each other at somewhere around 250mph. Thank God my Lewis didn't jam. I kept a steady stream of lead pouring into the nose of that machine. He was firing also. I could see my tracers splashing along the barrels of his Spandaus and I knew the pilot was sitting right behind them. His lead came whistling by my head and ripping holes in my 'bathtub'. Then something happened. We could hardly have been 20 yards apart when the Albatros pointed her nose down suddenly. Zip, and she passed under us. Cunnell banked and turned. We saw the all-red plane slip into a spin. It turned over and over and round and round. It was no maneuver. He was completely out of control. His motor was going full-on, so I figured I had at least wounded him. Second Lieutenant Albert Woodbridge, 20 Squadron
    Richthofen left his own account of his defeat during this encounter;

    I watched as the observer, obviously excited, shot at me. I calmly let him fire, for his best marksmanship would not have helped at a distance of 300 meters. One just does not score at that distance! Now he turned on me completely and I hoped to get behind him in the next turn to burn his hide. Suddenly I received a blow on my head! I was hit! For a moment my whole body was completely paralyzed. My hands dropped to the side and my legs dangled in the fuselage. The worst part was that the blow on the head affected my optic nerve and I was completely blinded. The machine plunged down. For a moment it flashed through my head that this is the way it looks just before death. I doubted if the wings could stand the strain, and I expected they would break off at any moment. I did not loose consciousness immediately. I fought to regain control of my arms and legs so that i could grasp the control stick. I managed to shut off the fuel and the ignition. But wold that alone help me? I had moved my eyes around and taken my goggles off, but it was impossible too see even the sun. I was completely blinded. The seconds were an eternity to me. I continued to fall. Rittmeister Manfred von Richthofen, Jagdgeschwader 1
    At the very last minute he regained partial vision and managed to land safely just before fainting.

    The FE2d and an Albatross DIII:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails albatros_d3.jpg   RAF_FE2d.jpg  

  10. #60

    David Kuijt's Avatar
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    On June 9, 1917, Raymond Collishaw was shot down by the first burst from an enemy that bounced him while he was engaging a second. "His attack left me unscathed but shattered my controls. I was completely helpless." (Osprey on Sopwith Triplane Aces, p83). He was shot down at 16,000 feet; his plane then swooped and spun randomly and uncontrollably all the way to the ground (15 minutes, he said) and swooped just as it crashed; he walked away with just bruises.

    One shot, one kill, against one of the best Aces of WWI. If it can happen to Richtofen, and it can happen to Collishaw, then by God it should be able to happen to me!

  11. #61

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    I think a lot of people take the "explosion" card too literally. I think it is meant to represent all the ways that "instant death" could strike in a WW1 aircraft. Pilot incapacitation/death is proably much more likely than an actual explosion-- I wonder if the card would have generated so much dislike if, instead of "explosion" the card said "pilot killed".........

    If you read some first hand accounts, you get a sense of how risky this air combat activity really was. Personally, I would not want to be exchanging machine gun fire with an opponent, with only a piece of canvas protecting me....

  12. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Kuijt View Post
    On June 9, 1917, Raymond Collishaw was shot down by the first burst from an enemy that bounced him while he was engaging a second. "His attack left me unscathed but shattered my controls. I was completely helpless." (Osprey on Sopwith Triplane Aces, p83).
    Collishaw's autobiography is hard to find, but worth the trouble-- it is a terrific read.
    Last edited by rcboater; 05-21-2010 at 06:23. Reason: fixed typos

  13. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by rcboater View Post
    I think it is meant to represent all the ways that "instant death" could strike in a WW1 aircraft.
    Andrea has pointed this out on several occasions.

  14. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by Col. Hajj View Post
    Andrea has pointed this out on several occasions.
    I am sorry if my posting was obtuse, but this was exactly the point that I was trying to make in my last posting. I can only apologize to rcboater if my meaning was not clear enough. I will try not to be so supercilious next time.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  15. #65

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    Both Richthofen's and Collishaw's encounters are "one in one thousand" (or perhaps "two in two thousand") instances, as would be an E.I managing to get a shot off against a SPAD 13 in the first place (the E.I couldn't catch it, much less shoot it) -- the Instant Death card is a one in about forty instance.

    One could as easily justify a card which, when played, causes the player's airplane to "simply disappear into the clouds" (think Georges Guynemer); or (depending on who you ask) the mechanical failure which killed Max Immelmann. But at that point, we're playing _Aces High_ (I have -- it's not pleasant... :P ).

    Also, the encounters cited upthread are examples of critical hits, with which the game already [ahem] deals with in the damage deck. Personally, I prefer the solution I've seen employed in some quarters where the "observer dead" result becomes "one crewman injured"; two instances on the pilot, plane does not so much fly as plummet.

    (Side note: The reason I loathe "instant death" shots is because I've lost more *players* -- not "characters", mind; *players* -- to it than anything else. There are few acts more discouraging -- or worse, frustrating -- to prospective new players than a 10-minute setup for a 30-second game session.)

    But this is all my opinion. I don't like it, so I don't use it; doesn't stop you from using it, right?

  16. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    I am sorry if my posting was obtuse, but this was exactly the point that I was trying to make in my last posting. I can only apologize to rcboater if my meaning was not clear enough. I will try not to be so supercilious next time.
    Rob.
    Not at all mate. I was just pointing out that Andrea has explained to us several times that the explosion card does not exactly mean the plane exploded.

    Quote Originally Posted by csadn View Post
    Both Richthofen's and Collishaw's encounters are "one in one thousand" (or perhaps "two in two thousand") instances, as would be an E.I managing to get a shot off against a SPAD 13 in the first place (the E.I couldn't catch it, much less shoot it) -- the Instant Death card is a one in about forty instance.
    While it happens more often in our games then it might have in real life, I'm not sure of a better way of taking it into account in game terms.

    I still say an E.I coming out of the sun or clouds on an unsuspecting SPAD could get a shot off on the SPAD, or even when the SPAD comes in range to shoot him.

    How often are you flying an E.I against a SPAD 13 anyways?

    One could as easily justify a card which, when played, causes the player's airplane to "simply disappear into the clouds" (think Georges Guynemer); or (depending on who you ask) the mechanical failure which killed Max Immelmann. But at that point, we're playing _Aces High_ (I have -- it's not pleasant... :P ).
    This is in fact what the explosion card represents... any thing that can take a plane out of action in a single go.

    Also, the encounters cited upthread are examples of critical hits, with which the game already [ahem] deals with in the damage deck. Personally, I prefer the solution I've seen employed in some quarters where the "observer dead" result becomes "one crewman injured"; two instances on the pilot, plane does not so much fly as plummet.
    Many people have issues with how the critical hits/damages effects are handled in the game I forgot which rule set it is in (maybe WWI Deluxe Set?), but the Observer Dead special damage is applied to the pilot.

    (Side note: The reason I loathe "instant death" shots is because I've lost more *players* -- not "characters", mind; *players* -- to it than anything else. There are few acts more discouraging -- or worse, frustrating -- to prospective new players than a 10-minute setup for a 30-second game session.)
    I completely agree with you here. That's way a lot of us remove it only when teach new players the game. Once they have "gone up" a few times, we add it back in like any of the other optional rules that enhance the game.

    But this is all my opinion. I don't like it, so I don't use it; doesn't stop you from using it, right?
    Very true!!!
    Last edited by Oberst Hajj; 05-22-2010 at 00:09.

  17. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by Col. Hajj View Post
    How often are you flying an E.I against a SPAD 13 anyways?
    That's the fun part of the game -- running acft. which never faced each other head-to-head. >

    And in four combats, the E.I has fired exactly three shots -- and two of those were 0s.

    The SPAD's problem is its lack of maneuverability -- fly in, shoot, fly by, spend four turns getting turned around, repeat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Col. Hajj View Post
    This is in fact what the explosion card represents... any thing that can take a plane out of action in a single go.
    That's as may be -- it still doesn't happen one time in 40, which is my problem with it (well, one of them).

    Quote Originally Posted by Col. Hajj View Post
    Many people have issues with how the critical hits/damages effects are handled in the game I forgot which rule set it is in (maybe WWI Deluxe Set?), but the Observer Dead special damage is applied to the pilot.
    Well, as I've yet to see a WW1 Deluxe Set up here (USA), it doesn't help me a whole lot. (Reminds me: I need to ask my supplier if it's getting in any of the 2nd-ed. WW1 Deluxe Sets -- Frank Luke is one of my idols... which should tell you something about me. > )

    Quote Originally Posted by Col. Hajj View Post
    I completely agree with you here. That's way a lot of us remove it only when teach new players the game. Once they have "gone up" a few times, we add it back in like any of the other optional rules that enhance the game.
    Well, I don't consider it an "enhancement", but that's me.

    Give you an example: I once drew two "engine damaged" results in one shot; that was a sufficiently rare "instant death" that it didn't bother me all that much. Drawing two "crew injured" specials for one shot -- same deal. Having a "Foxtrot Yankee" card* lying in wait in the deck -- that's annoying.

    [*: The meaning of this is left to the reader's imagination. > ]

  18. #68

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    My group often leaves the "explosion" card out until a condition is met. With a table of experienced players, we'll insert into a shuffled deck after the first plane meets its end in another manner. With a mix of old and new, we'll insert it after the appropriate damage deck runs out. If we have all new players, we leave it out or discount it if drawn.

    We're playing more and more scenario-driven/mission-oriented games, so we have more planes buzzing and it's not long, even with a reshuffle, for the dreaded BOOM-card to make its appearance.

    Alternately, you could make it a pilot skill for certain skilled pilots or aces to return the Boom-card in exchange for another damage card on first draw. If they draw it again later on...too bad. Your number is up!

  19. #69

    Gord's Avatar



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    One can always keep the explosion card AND reduce the element of chance by adding dice to the result. Draw the explosion, roll the dice and add the total to your damage.
    If your a/c can has 12 hit points remaining and you roll boxcars then - as they say - "Poof! She is gone!", but you might just roll snake-eyes and get to stay in the fight.
    I am going to try this a house rule and let you know how it works.
    Aces could subtract one from the dice roll for every multiple of 5 victories (is it politically incorrect to say kills?).

    Gord

  20. #70

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    In my group we split the damage decks into two piles, shuffle the explosion into one of the piles, and put that pile at the bottom of the deck. That way the explosions are in the decks, but you know you won't get one until at least half the damage deck has been used. We have no early instant deaths that way.

  21. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by tuladin View Post
    In my group we split the damage decks into two piles, shuffle the explosion into one of the piles, and put that pile at the bottom of the deck. That way the explosions are in the decks, but you know you won't get one until at least half the damage deck has been used. We have no early instant deaths that way.
    This is the best idea Iv'e seen.

  22. #72

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    I do similar with my wingman but the club we play at doesn't...yet !
    I pulled the explosion card twice in the last 3 games I've played in there - one on an A deck & one on a B deck - both were quite late on in the game. The first was the result of fire damage, so was a fair result, the second in an exchange of gunfire with a 2 seater... I was within an ace of downing him just short of completing his mission too. I was gutted as I only had 8 damage points & it meant defeat was snatched from the jaws of victory.
    Next time......

    "He is wise who watches"

  23. #73

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    I feel the dogfights are short enough to keep the explosion cards in. Plus I made some chips with the damage and special damage on them. The pilots grab them out of a bag and then on the honor system write them down on a card by their flight deck then put the chip back in the bag.

    Tom

  24. #74

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    Having read so much about random flack when flying over the lines, we decided in one of our games to insert three explosion cards, and place them in a deck for the attackers being over the enemy lines. No anti aircraft guns were placed, but if an explosion card was drawn, the rules for flack were employed. The aircraft then took damage as for a near miss by A.A. fire. That spiced up the game a bit, and gave us chance to use our flack markers. They are too good not to use.We are now trying to simulate, a plane taken by surprise being warned by a flack battery with random bursts of flack. Will he notice the plane in the Sun or not?
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  25. #75

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    Nice one Rob - I may try that one with the boys at the club.

    "He is wise who watches"

  26. #76

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    We (my son and I) remove the explosion card for all our games. For me, I like to earn my victory, and the explosion card takes that away. If I get a kill, I want to have done it by outflying my opponent (as much as possible considering luck of the draw with damage cards), not by getting a lucky shot. My very first game of WOW I was completely and utterly dominated by my buddy and with my plane near death (only 2 points left) he drew the explosion card with one of the few hits I landed on his plane. I got my first kill but had not even an ounce of satisfaction with it. Ever since then I've played without it. I totally understand why it's there (the various circumstances it represents), but for me I enjoy the thrill of the fight and when it's all over, win or lose, I'll know It ended with a true, well earned victory.

    Scott

  27. #77

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    I've said it before...Its is still my favorite card in the game. I still laugh everytime I draw it for the following reasons;

    It causes stress before the draw, making you feel like you are the pilot.
    It balances out the idea of using any plane in the game against another.
    It evens the playing field for the beginners against the seasoned fliers.
    It can be frustrating to draw just when you are doing well, a common issue during the war.
    It can make your day during a game where you are doing very poorly (how many points do I have left?...let me count again)
    It DOES cause no end of contorversy!!

    I do have a suggestion for those of you that remove it from your games...Since it is supposed to represent a realitivly instant death, at least use the Observer Incapasitated special damage cards as instant death for pilots. Since there was nothing to keep bullets from hitting the pilots in these planes, I think the need for the event is there.

    Our group does roll dice if a plane goes down due to being whittled down to zero damage points to deturmine if the pilot survives the crash. So the unlucky pilot hits that mean there is no chance of survival is important to us from a historic viewpoint.

    Please remember however the only right way to play this game is the way YOUR group likes to play!! That is one of the reasons that this has become my favorite game, It's flexability.

  28. #78

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