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Thread: Series 8 planes revealed!

  1. #451

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoe Brain View Post
    From private correspondence with Andrea::

    After checking his sources, I concurred. He made the right call, though was wrong about the Halberstadt CL.II, whose V deck is slower than Q. Neither of us picked up on the speed issue, I just saw Halberstadt Cl.II one plus two 90° restricted turns and didn't check to see of that was truly the case. My fault.

    The problem is the speed. It should really be in the D,I,J,K,V speed band, not the B,C,F,H,L,M,O,Q,S,U one. So it was either use the too-unmaneuverable I deck, or the too-fast Q one. Or a new deck.
    Hi Zoe.

    I understand that I'm dropping into this discussion on the late side, but want to make sure I understand correctly... Is it the Halberstadt CL.II or the Hannover CL.III which is represented in game terms as being slower than it should be?

    My apologies if this has already been covered and I've simply missed it...

  2. #452

    strontiumdog's Avatar
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    While the paint schemes are good i am annoyed that one of the Macchi's is a captured one as it upsets the format for having three aircraft of one type for the same side. There is a flourishing repaints community that would happily convert an allied one to a captured axis one but not everyone wants that hassle.

  3. #453

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    Quote Originally Posted by strontiumdog View Post
    While the paint schemes are good i am annoyed that one of the Macchi's is a captured one as it upsets the format for having three aircraft of one type for the same side. There is a flourishing repaints community that would happily convert an allied one to a captured axis one but not everyone wants that hassle.
    Have to agree. I don't find captured WWI aircraft very interesting subjects; I've always felt that they were comparatively rare, and usually employed in combat (rather than as hacks) only until friendly fire made their use almost suicidal or something broke their new owners didn't have parts for, which in practice meant briefly. All it usually results in is one interesting paint scheme for the aircraft's primary users being bypassed to produce a novelty item. I'm also concerned that this choice could mean that no A-H seaplane is forthcoming, because I've never found Macchi M.5s virtually indistinguishable from Austro-Hungarian Lohners (unlike earlier Macchi flying boats, they're not).
    Last edited by DarrylH; 12-18-2014 at 01:08.

  4. #454

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    Quote Originally Posted by strontiumdog View Post
    While the paint schemes are good i am annoyed that one of the Macchi's is a captured one as it upsets the format for having three aircraft of one type for the same side. There is a flourishing repaints community that would happily convert an allied one to a captured axis one but not everyone wants that hassle.
    I think that this may be another way of Ares pointing out that they are breaking out of the Nexus straight jacket of set format for releases. It could also be a ploy to get those people who insist on balanced points for games to be able to field planes of equal worth on both sides in an Italian scenario.
    Just my insipid guess.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  5. #455

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sashdash View Post
    Although I don't quite understand why Ares decided to make the E.V rather then the better D.VIII?
    The histories talk of redesigning the wing and strengthening it, but it seems like all they did was rework a construction technique of the main spars, and better QC.
    Was there any visual difference (esp. at 1/144th scale) between the July and October models? The change in designation from E.V to D.VIII was due to a directive from the Luftstreitkräfte, not an attempt to disguise the fixed plane as a new one (note: the Junkers monoplane was a D.I)
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  6. #456

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    The histories talk of redesigning the wing and strengthening it, but it seems like all they did was rework a construction technique of the main spars, and better QC.
    Was there any visual difference (esp. at 1/144th scale) between the July and October models? The change in designation from E.V to D.VIII was due to a directive from the Luftstreitkräfte, not an attempt to disguise the fixed plane as a new one (note: the Junkers monoplane was a D.I)
    Karl
    FOKKER E.V / D.VIII
    The book source I mentioned before says that the problem with the E.V was its inner Wingstructure. The first E.V model came in service on July 3, 1918. Already on August 16. and 19. there were two deadly crashes with those new E.Vs so that on August 24th there
    was an aicraft grounding for those models and the production was stopped. They found damages in the inner wingstructure caused by condensation water (because of an insufficient body cavity preservation).
    Furthermore some of the nails were not properly placed. But most of all the dimension of the spars were wrong.
    With this knowledge they made a new wing with reinforced spars and an improved body cavity preservation (I hope this is the correct engl. term) on the the new D.VIII. Of course they also improved the QC as you mentioned
    The new name D.VIII was given to emphasize the improved wing structure and to dismantel the apprehension due to those crashes.

    On September 24th the production of the "now called" Fokker D.VIII was resumed and on October 8th the first D.VIII was put into service.
    Fokker was committed to also provide the grounded 139 E.Vs with the new wings.
    By November 11th. 80 D.VIII were put into service, however until now there are nearly no confirmed reports of D.VIII or E.V (with improved wings) taking part in combat missions.

    I hope this is interesting info

    Regards
    Sascha

  7. #457

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    Very interesting Sascha, well researched


    I'm learning to fly, but I ain't got wings
    Coming down is the hardest thing

  8. #458

    LOOP
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    Quote Originally Posted by fast.git View Post
    Hi Zoe.

    I understand that I'm dropping into this discussion on the late side, but want to make sure I understand correctly... Is it the Halberstadt CL.II or the Hannover CL.III which is represented in game terms as being slower than it should be?
    I did a mini search and in my opinion the Halberstadt and the Hannover had roughly the same topspeed. Midrange (D-,I-,J-,V-decks) So a slower version of the Q-deck.
    Last edited by LOOP; 12-21-2014 at 23:07.

  9. #459

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    I think that this may be another way of Ares pointing out that they are breaking out of the Nexus straight jacket of set format for releases. It could also be a ploy to get those people who insist on balanced points for games to be able to field planes of equal worth on both sides in an Italian scenario.
    Just my insipid guess.
    Rob.


    Rob, I would never characterize you or any of your posts as insipid.

  10. #460

    strontiumdog's Avatar
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    I think that this may be another way of Ares pointing out that they are breaking out of the Nexus straight jacket of set format for releases. It could also be a ploy to get those people who insist on balanced points for games to be able to field planes of equal worth on both sides in an Italian scenario.
    Just my insipid guess.
    Rob.

    Im suprised to hear that some people use a points value system, personally i have always found it easy to create a balanced scenario in WOW (unlike most other games i make scenarios for!).

  11. #461

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    Very interesting conversation chaps & ladies! I am more of a WWII aviation buff and still learning a lot about WWI aircraft, so I rely on my fellow 'Drome mates to fill in the gaps.

  12. #462

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    Quote Originally Posted by strontiumdog View Post
    Im suprised to hear that some people use a points value system, personally i have always found it easy to create a balanced scenario in WOW (unlike most other games i make scenarios for!).
    Quite right. But why should the games be balanced at all? No real fights (aerial fights included) were "balanced". If you want a balanced game, why not swapping sides after the first combat On the other hand if you play an underdog and you loose you can always blame the winner and excuse yourself (what I always do)
    <img src=http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=2554&dateline=1409073309 border=0 alt= />
    "We do not stop playing when we get old, but we get old when we stop playing."

  13. #463

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    Dear all,
    thanks a lot for your interesting posts.
    We managed to correct the Hannover Cl.III issue even if production was already going on. It will have a W deck - a brand new one, like a Q one but slower. Thanks a lot for pointing out that. My fault, Zoe. While I appreciate your help and all the effort of the Unofficial Statistics Committee.
    No evil plan to ignore their work. I appreciate it a lot and I considered it deeply. In the end, after a confrontation with Zoe, I decided something slightly different, I hope that no offence is taken for that.
    Captured planes enhance players' choices IMHO, giving more gaming opportunities. Yes they were few... but our game also feature the Red Baron, and there was jus tone of them! Historically, even if there was a few of them for each model, overall there were several of them and I think that they can be inserted in the game without making it inaccurate.

    Thanks again and all the best,

    Andrea

  14. #464


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    Agreed - I'm far more interested in playing historically based games than worrying about who wins and levelling the playing field. Uneven games are usually far more interesting to play.

  15. #465

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angiolillo View Post
    It will have a W deck - a brand new one
    Dammit, I'll just have to buy a few now

  16. #466

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    As far as captured plane idea is concerned I am all for that! Just look at the Macchi - what a beautiful plane it was. In fact - the first of the seaplanes in the official range we get. I plan to buy several of them just to play "over the waves" scenarios I could not do so far
    (for I only have just one floatplane )



    Will the Macchis bring down that monster?
    <img src=http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=2554&dateline=1409073309 border=0 alt= />
    "We do not stop playing when we get old, but we get old when we stop playing."

  17. #467

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Manley View Post
    Dammit, I'll just have to buy a few now
    Totally.

  18. #468

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    Quote Originally Posted by strontiumdog View Post
    Im suprised to hear that some people use a points value system, personally i have always found it easy to create a balanced scenario in WOW (unlike most other games i make scenarios for!).
    So do I when I want a balanced game, often I like to play against odds Dan.
    However, I do understand that Andrea needs to have some formula for the big convention type challenge games. Thus a points system is necessary for those players.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  19. #469

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightbomber View Post
    As far as captured plane idea is concerned I am all for that! Just look at the Macchi - what a beautiful plane it was. In fact - the first of the seaplanes in the official range we get. I plan to buy several of them just to play "over the waves" scenarios I could not do so far
    (for I only have just one floatplane )



    Will the Macchis bring down that monster?
    I doubt it said the carpenter and shed a bitter tear.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  20. #470

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angiolillo View Post
    ...We managed to correct the Hannover Cl.III issue even if production was already going on. It will have a W deck - a brand new one, like a Q one but slower....
    Bravo Andrea & all concerned - another one for the list

    "He is wise who watches"

  21. #471

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    Bravo Andrea & all concerned - another one for the list
    That is indeed good news.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  22. #472

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angiolillo View Post
    We managed to correct the Hannover Cl.III issue even if production was already going on. It will have a W deck - a brand new one, like a Q one but slower.
    Andrea
    So when these come out, should we use the new W deck for the Halberstadt Cl.II?
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  23. #473

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    So when these come out, should we use the new W deck for the Halberstadt Cl.II?
    Karl
    Yes, emphatically.

  24. #474

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    Glad problems have been solved. Now looking forward to new minis

  25. #475

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    So when these come out, should we use the new W deck for the Halberstadt Cl.II?
    Karl
    Quote Originally Posted by Zoe Brain View Post
    Yes, emphatically.
    So, replacement decks are forthcoming for the Halberstadts?
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  26. #476

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    To expand - the CL.II was a little larger and a little heavier, but the same wing loading. Telling the CL.II from CL.III apart is tricky.
    CL.II
    Length: 7.80 m (25 ft 7 in)
    Wingspan: 11.95 m (39 ft 3 in)
    Wing area: 33.8 m2 (364 ft2)
    Empty weight: 750 kg (1,650 lb)
    Maximum speed: 165 km/h (103 mph)
    Service ceiling: 7,500 m (24,600 ft)

    Click image for larger version. 

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    (Note strut on tail)

    CL.IIIa
    Length: 7.58 m (24 ft 10 in)
    Wingspan: 11.7 m (38 ft 5 in)
    Wing area: 32.7 m2 (352 sq ft)
    Empty weight: 717 kg (1,581 lb)
    Maximum speed: 165 km/h (103 mph; 89 kn) at 5,000 m (16,404 ft)
    Service ceiling: 7,498 m (24,600 ft)

    Compared to the preceding CL.II, the CL.III had redesigned ailerons with aerodynamic balances that overhung the wingtips, a modification that provided greater manoeuvrability, especially at the low levels that the CL.III was expected to be operating at

  27. #477

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGuy59 View Post
    So, replacement decks are forthcoming for the Halberstadts?
    Somehow, Andrea has managed to accomplish the miraculous. Less than 2 months before the new aircraft is due to be released, to design a completely new maneuver deck, and get the artwork on the base changed before production. After the publicity shots showing pre-production prototypes have appeared on the Ares site. So they will have the right decks from the start, no need for "replacements".

    And all because he's a perfectionist, and those he relied on to check his work dropped the ball. Mea Culpa.

  28. #478

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angiolillo View Post
    My fault, Zoe.
    Our fault. I should have picked up on it before now.

    In the end, after a confrontation with Zoe, I decided something slightly different, I hope that no offence is taken for that.
    "Confrontation" is a literal translation from the Italian I think. "Discussion" is a better translation, it is less, ah, confrontational.

    There have been far more vocal discussions and disagreements within the Official Unofficial Stats Committee than this one! We all have access to different sources, none of them are 100% reliable in all respects, minor contradictions are everywhere, so we have to take our "best guess" based on subjectivity and our experience as military historians. The only surprise is how similar our conclusions are, not that they may differ in minor ways on a very few borderline cases.

    As gamers, if there are 2 equally valid interpretations, then all other things being equal, we have tended to go with those that set different aircraft apart. So if we have two aircraft, whose performance figures are similar, but one is definitely a little more maneuverable than another, and there are pilot accounts praising its maneuverability compared to the other, we have tended to exaggerate the differences so they end up with different decks, when the figures alone wouldn't justify that.

    Arguably, Camels are more Camel-ey, DrIs more DrI-ey, D.VIIs more Dr.VII-ey, etc than they should be. But this is entirely in accordance with the pilot's perceptions at the time, and most importantly, gives a far, far more enjoyable game than the equally valid - but not more valid - interpretation that minimised differences.

    As a simulation, it is as plausible an interpretation of reality as anything else, and better than all but a few. As a game, superior.

  29. #479

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGuy59 View Post
    So, replacement decks are forthcoming for the Halberstadts?
    No. Beware, you are speaking of Halberstadt Cl.II (that we released) - Zoe is speaking about Hannover Cl.II (that is still unofficial). No need to replace Halberstadt Cl.II's decks IMHO.
    Halberstadt Cl.II was heavier, with a higher wing load since it also had a smaller wing surface, it was less powerful. Even at the light of reports and literature, it does not deserve the same deck IMHO.

    Plane -------------- Speed -- Wing area (sq m) -- full weight (kg) -- HP
    Halberstadt Cl.II -- 165 ---- 27,5 ----------------- 1133 ------------- 160
    Hannover Cl.IIIa -- 165 ---- 32.7 ----------------- 1081 ------------- 180

    Here the updated pictures on Ares' site:

    http://www.aresgames.eu/games/ww1-wi...nnover-cl-iiia

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Angiolillo; 12-18-2014 at 21:44.

  30. #480

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoe Brain View Post
    "Confrontation" is a literal translation from the Italian I think. "Discussion" is a better translation, it is less, ah, confrontational.
    Yes sorry, these former Latin words have different uses in different parts of the world now. In Italian, "confronto" and "confrontare" means comparison / to compare. "Confrontarsi" with somebody is to compare and exchange opinions, views and informations.

    The philosophy of the Committee seems perfectly reasonable to me!

  31. #481

    LOOP
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angiolillo View Post
    It will have a W deck - a brand new one, like a Q one but slower.
    Great!!! Excelent work!!

  32. #482

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    That model looks great Andrea
    If the W deck is the same as the Q deck but slower would it be something like this ?

    Deck W (20) - Fast speed - 3.5cm
    3 straight
    3 right turn
    3 left turn
    1 hard right turn (90°) - steep
    1 hard left turn (90°) - steep
    2 stall - steep
    1 Immelmann !
    2 right sideslip
    2 left sideslip
    1 climb
    1 dive

    "He is wise who watches"

  33. #483

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    Yeah, save the belligerent confrontational stuff for me and my Clue-Bat*. LOL
    *Which has been secured in its locker for the duration of the holiday season...

  34. #484

    LOOP
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    News for January is up on the ARES website but no aircrafts

  35. #485

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angiolillo View Post
    Dear all,
    thanks a lot for your interesting posts.
    We managed to correct the Hannover Cl.III issue even if production was already going on. It will have a W deck - a brand new one, like a Q one but slower. Thanks a lot for pointing out that. My fault, Zoe. While I appreciate your help and all the effort of the Unofficial Statistics Committee.
    No evil plan to ignore their work. I appreciate it a lot and I considered it deeply. In the end, after a confrontation with Zoe, I decided something slightly different, I hope that no offence is taken for that.
    Captured planes enhance players' choices IMHO, giving more gaming opportunities. Yes they were few... but our game also feature the Red Baron, and there was jus tone of them! Historically, even if there was a few of them for each model, overall there were several of them and I think that they can be inserted in the game without making it inaccurate.

    Thanks again and all the best,

    Andrea
    I certainly don't want to give the impression that the Austro-Hungarian M.5 is a 'deal breaker' for me, Andrea-I continue to enjoy and think very highly of WoG, and will certainly be buying the Italian and USN Macchis when they're available. I personally can't work up any enthusiasm over captured planes as releases; looking at the Red Baron example, he flew all the major fighters he used for longer periods of time than any captured fighters were probably employed by their new owners. But that's just my take on it, and the A-H Macchi has definitely generated a good response from those who've seen pictures of the mini. The KuK markings were striking, and I can't wait for the Navy Phonix to come out .

  36. #486

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    This is what comes from me thinking "Hannovers" when what is written is "Halberstadts".

    Just to explain - the OUSC did 3 aircraft. The Halberstadt CL.II, the Halberstadt CL.IV, and the Hannover CL II/IIIa

    The Halberstadt CL.II we gave a "J*" deck to. That is, a J deck - as per an Albatros D.III - but with some sideslips removed, as it wasn't quite as good as a D.III.
    One of our goals was to only use decks that were in production, not make new ones, then try to shoehorn the aircraft in. While the best outcome was an unmodified deck, we'd sometimes accept one with cards removed (never added), especially if that fitted multiple aircraft.

    Later, Ares and Andrea produced an official Halberstadt CL.II model, using a new "V" deck - which is a J deck with some sideslips removed, exactly the same as our old "J*" deck.

    The OUSC thought on the evidence available that the Hannover CL.II and CL.IIIa were about the same - J*/V. Later data (from Andrea) showed we were wrong, quite substantially so. So the official Hannover CL.IIIa (not CL.II) has a new "W" deck - one that wasn't available at the time we determined the stats.

    The OUSC also produced a Halberstadt CL.IV. This was described in all accounts as more maneuverable than a Halberstadt CL.II, in particular able to sideslip to avoid ground fire. We gave it a J deck, same as an Albatros D.III, but otherwise similar to a Halberstadt CL.II. While it might be worth looking at this again to see if a W deck is better, unless new information comes in, I think J is best. For one thing, it gives these 3 different aircraft 3 different decks, and those decks apparently match the perceived maneuverability of each.

    So now we have
    Official Halberstadt CL.II -V deck
    Official Hannover CL.IIIa - W deck
    Unofficial Halberstadt CL.IV - J deck

    The Hannover III looks a bit different than the IIIa - a different, heavier and more powerful engine so is a bit different visually, not enough to justify a different deck though - but Colinwe's "Hannover CL III" model and Tin Soldier's "Hannover CL III" are both IIIa's as far as I can see. SRAM's is a CL.IIIa too. Almost all "CL.III"
    s were actually IIIa's..

    If anyone ever makes a Hannover CL.II model.... then we'd have to see if a W or J deck would be best. W I think based on the numbers, though the new ailerons provided better maneuverability, so there's a case for both J and V decks.... but until someone makes one in 1/144, we'll leave that question open, thanks!

  37. #487

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    Well, often true - the Austrian Macchi did not have a long history. But it is somehow representative of a family of Italo-Austrians seaplanes - after all it all started from Lohner's models. Waiting for real Austrian and German seaplanes to be added to the game.

    In general, anyway, Central Powers' use of captured planes was not so rare. Nor totally ineffective. Leffers' Nieuport (in Watch your Back) shot down a Fe2, on the 3rd of September 1916. Vecihi Hürkuţ's Nieuport 17 (in Burning Drachens) did not, as far as I know, but he shot down an enemy plane at least with a captured Caudron G.4. Kissenberth scored a Se5a flying with his Camel on 16 May 1918. Just from a first check of planes that we included in WoW. And this just for fighters - but there have been captured multi-seaters too, that of course did not did much against enemy foghters. Even with no victories, the Belgian Friedrichshafen G.III did her duty in artillery observation. And we are just sticking to WWI - during the Russian Civil War and the other wars fought in Europe just after 1918 captured planes saw a quite extensive use.
    In WW2, Italians whidely used captured french planes, as the appreciated D.520 (with a very welcome heavier armament than Italian fighters of early WW2). Colonnello Tondi shot down a B-17 and a B-24 with a captured P-38. Finnish also extensively used captured planes if I am not wrong. The Partisan air force of Tito is astonishing indeed, if nothing else for exhisting and being operative (there have been no other Partisan air forces, isn't it?), and it operated captured planes (we featured a Stuka in Fire from the sky).

    Well, maybe not much - but worth to play with IMHO.

  38. #488

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    One of the many aspects that make WGF and WGS so wonderful is the passion the game designer has for his game, the history, and the pilots and planes of their respective eras. Thanks, Andrea for all the efforts to bring us the most historicaly accurate game as possible and quality game components at a fair price. While I am not a huge fan of captured aircraft myself, I see their purpose and their place in the game. It has never stopped me yet from buying them. The again, I own one of everything that has ever been put out in WoW and WoG for WGF and WGS. I can't help myself, you guys keep making them to the high standards that you do and I will keep buying them as fast as they come out.

  39. #489

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoe Brain View Post
    This is what comes from me thinking "Hannovers" when what is written is "Halberstadts".

    Just to explain - the OUSC did 3 aircraft. The Halberstadt CL.II, the Halberstadt CL.IV, and the Hannover CL II/IIIa

    The Halberstadt CL.II we gave a "J*" deck to. That is, a J deck - as per an Albatros D.III - but with some sideslips removed, as it wasn't quite as good as a D.III.
    One of our goals was to only use decks that were in production, not make new ones, then try to shoehorn the aircraft in. While the best outcome was an unmodified deck, we'd sometimes accept one with cards removed (never added), especially if that fitted multiple aircraft.

    Later, Ares and Andrea produced an official Halberstadt CL.II model, using a new "V" deck - which is a J deck with some sideslips removed, exactly the same as our old "J*" deck.

    The OUSC thought on the evidence available that the Hannover CL.II and CL.IIIa were about the same - J*/V. Later data (from Andrea) showed we were wrong, quite substantially so. So the official Hannover CL.IIIa (not CL.II) has a new "W" deck - one that wasn't available at the time we determined the stats.

    The OUSC also produced a Halberstadt CL.IV. This was described in all accounts as more maneuverable than a Halberstadt CL.II, in particular able to sideslip to avoid ground fire. We gave it a J deck, same as an Albatros D.III, but otherwise similar to a Halberstadt CL.II. While it might be worth looking at this again to see if a W deck is better, unless new information comes in, I think J is best. For one thing, it gives these 3 different aircraft 3 different decks, and those decks apparently match the perceived maneuverability of each.

    So now we have
    Official Halberstadt CL.II -V deck
    Official Hannover CL.IIIa - W deck
    Unofficial Halberstadt CL.IV - J deck
    This is exactly what I was looking for... thanks Zoe!

  40. #490

    Reiryc
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angiolillo View Post
    No. Beware, you are speaking of Halberstadt Cl.II (that we released) - Zoe is speaking about Hannover Cl.II (that is still unofficial). No need to replace Halberstadt Cl.II's decks IMHO.
    Halberstadt Cl.II was heavier, with a higher wing load since it also had a smaller wing surface, it was less powerful. Even at the light of reports and literature, it does not deserve the same deck IMHO.

    Plane -------------- Speed -- Wing area (sq m) -- full weight (kg) -- HP
    Halberstadt Cl.II -- 165 ---- 27,5 ----------------- 1133 ------------- 160
    Hannover Cl.IIIa -- 165 ---- 32.7 ----------------- 1081 ------------- 180

    Here the updated pictures on Ares' site:

    http://www.aresgames.eu/games/ww1-wi...nnover-cl-iiia

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	800x600-ww1_wings_of_glory-WGF208C.jpg 
Views:	136 
Size:	66.4 KB 
ID:	153272
    Great looking model! Can't wait to give it a go =)

  41. #491

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondback View Post
    Yeah, save the belligerent confrontational stuff for me and my Clue-Bat*. LOL
    *Which has been secured in its locker for the duration of the holiday season...
    [cut to pic of locker with door hanging open, and Clue-Bat missing]

    [cut to exterior shot of random shopping mall; audio is of terrified screaming, cursing, hollow THUDs, and a voice occasionally shouting questions like "WHY DID YOU WAIT UNTIL *NOW* TO DO YOUR SHOPPING?" AND "WHAT PART OF 'ORDER ONLINE' DID YOU *NOT* **&^%$#!ING* *UNDERSTAND*?"]

  42. #492

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Angiolillo View Post
    Colonnello Tondi shot down a B-17 and a B-24 with a captured P-38.
    And soon thereafter got a bushwhacking from a YB-40 specially brought in Just For Him in reply. *hint, hint, NUDGE*

    Quote Originally Posted by csadn View Post
    [cut to pic of locker with door hanging open, and Clue-Bat missing]

    [cut to exterior shot of random shopping mall; audio is of terrified screaming, cursing, hollow THUDs, and a voice occasionally shouting questions like "WHY DID YOU WAIT UNTIL *NOW* TO DO YOUR SHOPPING?" AND "WHAT PART OF 'ORDER ONLINE' DID YOU *NOT* **&^%$#!ING* *UNDERSTAND*?"]
    *unlocks still-secured locker, retrieves Clue-Bat*
    "What! *beat with bat* PART! *beat with bat* OF! *beat with bat* 'GET! *beat with bat* YOUR! *beat with bat* OWN! *beat with bat* GOB!*beat with bat*SMACKED! *beat with bat* TOYS!' *beat with bat* DO! *beat with bat* YOU! *beat with bat* NOT! *beat with bat* *&^%$#!ING! *beat with bat* UN!*beat with bat*DER!*beat with bat*STAND?!*beat with bat*"
    [cut to pic of French knocked loopy, sporting a nice new collection of goose-eggs on top of his head]
    Last edited by Diamondback; 12-21-2014 at 18:56.

  43. #493

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondback View Post
    And soon thereafter got a bushwhacking from a YB-40 specially brought in Just For Him in reply. *hint, hint, NUDGE*
    That's the legend of Guido Rossi:
    http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/sto...-38-a-445.html

    But Colonnello Angelo Tondi is history instead. He flew a P-38G that landed (out of fuel or by mistake - the compass had problems) at Capoterra in Sardinia after strafing the radar station of Capo Pula, on the 12th of June 1943. A car was hurriedly parked in front of it to prevent a take off.
    USAAF insigna have been immediately overpainted with olive drab and white "Savoy crosses" painted on the tail. For this reason the identification of the captured plane has never been 100% sure. Recently, a research showed that P-38G-15-LO s.n. 43-2439 was lost on the 12th of June, but the unit to which it belonged is unknown.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Colonel Tondi of 1° Reparto Volo of Centro Sperimentale (the unit testing new planes and captured ones) collected it on the 13th. After trying it for a while, he ferried it to his base of Guidonia, close to Rome.
    On the 11th of August he attacked a formation of about 50 bombers coming back from Terni and shot down B-17G "Bonny Sue", s.n. 42-30307. According to USAAF, he also damaged three more bombers on that occasion.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    http://www.301bg.com/b-17_42-30307.cfm


    On the 4th of September, the 301st BG reported the loss of B-17 "The Lady Evelyn," s.n. 42-30344, downed by "an enemy P-38".
    After the Armistice (8th of September) there are no more news of the plane. But it could be the P-38 T9+XB flown in 1944 by "Zirkus Rosarius".

    Click image for larger version. 

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    All these info comes from a book of one our best aviation history authors, Giancarlo Garello: "Prede di guerra" ("spolis of war"), by Giorgio Apostolo Editore - La Bancarella. Full text is both in English and Italian. Worth to be bought. Many pictures and profiles of captured planes with Italian colors - not only of the P-38 but of a B-24, a Curtiss Tomahawk Mk.IIB, a Beaufighter, an Albacore, a Swordfish, a Blenheim, a DC3, a Savoia Marchetti SM83 (taken from Sabena), a Hurricane (in two different schemes), a Dornier Do17, a Bf.108, a Bf.109E, three Bucker Jungmann (all German planes are taken from Jugoslavia), an Hawker Fury, a Breguet 19, four Rogozarski SIM-XIV, a Rogozarski P.V.T., a Rogozarski Fizir FP2. Not repainted, a captured Hurricane, a Blenheim and a Spitfire. But there are far more described in the text and photos. A different book in the same series is dedicated to French planes in the Regia Aeronautica.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Angiolillo; 12-22-2014 at 02:27.

  44. #494

    Default

    Another interesting bit of information from the Maestro.
    Thanks Andrea, and do have a great Christmas.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  45. #495

    LOOP
    Guest


    Default

    I'm going to ask a stupid question.. The Macchi M.5 fires A so it must have a twingun......... but where is it?
    I've searched the net but haven't found any plans showing the guns.
    Guess they are hidden in front somewhere but I can't find any holes for the bullets to come out.
    It's a but frustraiting

    Some help plaese

  46. #496

    Default

    Your guess is correct! Details are on Gregory Alegi's Windsock monography, that I have not at hand. Anyway the very first ones produced had only one machinegun, they soon became two and all the machines we depicted had twin ones.

  47. #497

    Default

    A "handsome man", quality.

  48. #498

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LOOP View Post
    I'm going to ask a stupid question.. The Macchi M.5 fires A so it must have a twingun......... but where is it?
    I've searched the net but haven't found any plans showing the guns.
    Guess they are hidden in front somewhere but I can't find any holes for the bullets to come out.
    It's a but frustraiting

    Some help plaese
    Here are some pictures that might answer your question. The twin guns were mounted left and right on the lean bow.

    Good to see on this model of a Macchi M.5
    Click image for larger version. 

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    N216JP Replica 1917 MACCHI M.5
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I like this idea best because the guns seem to be integrated perfectly into the paintjob. Wouldn't want to be hit by those eyes
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Sashdash; 12-22-2014 at 15:39.

  49. #499

    Default

    I don't know if you have already seen this but I was fascinated how easily the Macchi M.5 lifts up into the air.
    I have found this short film on youtube from the first flight of an experimental home built replica of a Macchi M-5.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xb_wbWA35-k

    Have fun watching it.

  50. #500

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondback View Post
    *unlocks still-secured locker, retrieves Clue-Bat*
    "What! *beat with bat* PART! *beat with bat* OF! *beat with bat* 'GET! *beat with bat* YOUR! *beat with bat* OWN! *beat with bat* GOB!*beat with bat*SMACKED! *beat with bat* TOYS!' *beat with bat* DO! *beat with bat* YOU! *beat with bat* NOT! *beat with bat* *&^%$#!ING! *beat with bat* UN!*beat with bat*DER!*beat with bat*STAND?!*beat with bat*"
    [cut to pic of French knocked loopy, sporting a nice new collection of goose-eggs on top of his head]
    <- removes false head; head pops up from hole

    Someone knock?

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