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Thread: Two seater damage

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    Default Two seater damage

    Hi folks,

    Having finally acquired some new models to broaden the scope of our games, last night my son played a Fokker Dr I and an Albatross D.V against my rE8 on a recce patrol. Things went fine until I got a 'pilot wounded' card and we realised that we probably need rules/cards for hitting the observer. Should we have a different damage card pack for the 2-seater? I looked in the downloads section here on thsite but couldn't find the necessary info - can anyone advise please?

    Ps despite getting to withn one damage point of taking out the Albatross my RE8 finally succumbed to the pressure and went down in a ball of flames unfortunately!? Great fun (but poor guys) ...

  2. #2

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    In the new rules you can draw chits that indicate whether the pilot/observer or both are hit ! You can make or obtain the chits - got mine with a bomber.
    In the old WoW rules it depends on the amount of damage caused - if using the A deck a 3 and it is the pilot, a 5 it is the observer; if using a B deck it's 3 & 1 respectively. Put simply if it's a 3 it's the pilot that's hit ! This is my preferred method - much quicker to resolve

  3. #3

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    That's the method I use as well Dave. As you say, it keeps things simples.
    Rob.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    In the new rules you can draw chits that indicate whether the pilot/observer or both are hit ! You can make or obtain the chits - got mine with a bomber.
    In the old WoW rules it depends on the amount of damage caused - if using the A deck a 3 and it is the pilot, a 5 it is the observer; if using a B deck it's 3 & 1 respectively. Put simply if it's a 3 it's the pilot that's hit ! This is my preferred method - much quicker to resolve
    The card number method brings a problem, since when an observer is hit, another cannot be hit at all, as it will always be the pilot.

    The RAP solves this with the I and II chits. An easy, fast method, allowing another hit on the same crew member.

  5. #5

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    I thought if it was 1 2 or 3 it was pilot , anything higher observer. On a second pilot wound card if same crew member hit he is dead.

  6. #6

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    Would it matter at what angle the attacking plane is coming in? If the attacker is approaching the two-seater from the front - pilot, otherwise the observer, at least until the observer is dead?

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by 7eat51 View Post
    Would it matter at what angle the attacking plane is coming in? If the attacker is approaching the two-seater from the front - pilot, otherwise the observer, at least until the observer is dead?
    That's not the official rules but it makes sense to me. The observer was more likely to be killed than the pilot because most of the time the attack came from behind. I suspect if a pilot was behind a two-seater they would tend to aim at the observer as it's him who is returning fire.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by 7eat51 View Post
    Would it matter at what angle the attacking plane is coming in? If the attacker is approaching the two-seater from the front - pilot, otherwise the observer, at least until the observer is dead?
    It doesn't, as in most cases there's still a chance you could hit either one, but you could always rule it as such. Me, I'm fine w/ the chit pull.

  9. #9

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    Well, you could approach this question with a number of diagrams, charts, rule sets, and random factoring. But reality is this is a quick and dirty fun game, and while you can make such house rules to approach reality. Why bother. Between Murphy and randomness, the cards approach unity with reality.

    Just because the attack is from the front or the rear in these little aircraft isn't going to be the major factor. Angle of attack, relative speeds, light effects from weather, condition of both aircraft and crews are all details that can be factored in, but again, the rules as they stand will do just as well with their simple ruling as 30 minutes of detailing charts and die rolls will do. Just enjoy the game. No need to fubar it.

    Quote Originally Posted by 7eat51 View Post
    Would it matter at what angle the attacking plane is coming in? If the attacker is approaching the two-seater from the front - pilot, otherwise the observer, at least until the observer is dead?

  10. #10

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    I have to agree with Al on this one. Simple is better. And to clarify previous posts their are two sets of chits in the new RAP when figuring out what happened to a crew hit on a 2 seater. The first (green chits) is to determine if one or both crew have taken a wound. The second (red chits) draw is to determine which was hit (if necessary).

    Cheers,
    Michael

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    Ok thanks for the replies so far - we went with the 'frontal attack = pilot hit, rear attack = observer hit' just to get on with the game, and it looks like some of you lean that way already. Bt given that is a 'board game' I like the chit method some of you have mentioned. What is the RAP please (assuming I've understood correctly that this is where the chits can be found) and/or how many chits of each are put into the hat? Is it simply one of each?
    Also, i've realised that this issue is related to, but distinctive from, damage to the aircraft. We only have one A deck, but I guess a two-seater is supposed to have a different deck. In our game the RE8 had 13 points of damage, while the Albatros had 15. Although that may refflect historical matters it seemed 'unfair' somehow... I guess I had the notion that these recce birds could soak up quite a lot of damage as scouts buzzed arund them. Is that not so? Shuld we look to acquire different damage cards for these aircraft?

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc R View Post
    Ok thanks for the replies so far - we went with the 'frontal attack = pilot hit, rear attack = observer hit' just to get on with the game, and it looks like some of you lean that way already. Bt given that is a 'board game' I like the chit method some of you have mentioned. What is the RAP please (assuming I've understood correctly that this is where the chits can be found) and/or how many chits of each are put into the hat? Is it simply one of each?
    Also, i've realised that this issue is related to, but distinctive from, damage to the aircraft. We only have one A deck, but I guess a two-seater is supposed to have a different deck. In our game the RE8 had 13 points of damage, while the Albatros had 15. Although that may refflect historical matters it seemed 'unfair' somehow... I guess I had the notion that these recce birds could soak up quite a lot of damage as scouts buzzed arund them. Is that not so? Shuld we look to acquire different damage cards for these aircraft?
    RAP = Rules & Accesories Pack. (hover over any of the blue underlined Acronyms on the 'Drome & it will give a definition. )

    As for Damage Decks, I'm a little confused by the question. The amount of damage your plane can take has no bearing on the damage deck it uses. That is determined by the type of guns it is armed with. Looking up an RE8 I see it is one of the B/B shooters, so yeah, a B deck would be handy (or take an A & divide the damage in 1/2 IIRC?)

    If you get the RAP, it has one of each damage deck, so you'll be all set.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Watchdog View Post
    The card number method brings a problem, since when an observer is hit, another cannot be hit at all, as it will always be the pilot.

    The RAP solves this with the I and II chits. An easy, fast method, allowing another hit on the same crew member.
    Good point, Jan.
    I go for this one, definitely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonSylver View Post
    RAP = Rules & Accesories Pack. (hover over any of the blue underlined Acronyms on the 'Drome & it will give a definition. )

    As for Damage Decks, I'm a little confused by the question. The amount of damage your plane can take has no bearing on the damage deck it uses. That is determined by the type of guns it is armed with. Looking up an RE8 I see it is one of the B/B shooters, so yeah, a B deck would be handy (or take an A & divide the damage in 1/2 IIRC?)

    If you get the RAP, it has one of each damage deck, so you'll be all set.
    Thanks Rob, I thought the underline must be significant but I read the forum on my iPad so I don't have a 'hover' function as such... I realise now that my question about damage was put wrong - obviously the deck is for dealing out damage, not receiving it, but I handn't thought about diffent guns so your reply was still very useful. I'll have to get the Pack so that I ahve all these decks, chits etc... [Sigh] More purchases needed

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc R View Post
    Thanks Rob, I thought the underline must be significant but I read the forum on my iPad so I don't have a 'hover' function as such... I realise now that my question about damage was put wrong - obviously the deck is for dealing out damage, not receiving it, but I handn't thought about diffent guns so your reply was still very useful. I'll have to get the Pack so that I ahve all these decks, chits etc... [Sigh] More purchases needed
    Ah, gotcha & gotcha. (I forget about the tablets & phones!). Like I said, IIRC you can get by using an A deck as a B by halving the damage. But the RAP is a good buy IMO just for the damage decks & the great complete rulebook + all the useful markers.

    Just to elaborate further on the guns, what differentiates an A from a B is the number of guns. Earlier planes (& two seaters) could only carry 1 gun (or 1 forward/rear), thus less damage (B) because of the weight. As the war went on & engines improved you started to have scouts that could carry more weight & add a second gun (A).

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    Having flown the R.E.8 myself in more than a few games the term "sitting duck" springs to mind, prticularly if you`r using altitude and ace rules and have MvR on you`r tail!

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    Mmmmm ... Interesting (and a little alarming!!), what were the tactics employed by such units then? Do you need multiple aircraft flying in formation (to give overlapping arcs of fire) or are you doomed on a recce mission the second the opposition turns up?

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc R View Post
    Mmmmm ... Interesting (and a little alarming!!), what were the tactics employed by such units then? Do you need multiple aircraft flying in formation (to give overlapping arcs of fire) or are you doomed on a recce mission the second the opposition turns up?
    Yes Ian. In effect circle the waggons. The other option used is to fly top cover with a couple of Scouts.
    Rob.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc R View Post
    Mmmmm ... Interesting (and a little alarming!!), what were the tactics employed by such units then? Do you need multiple aircraft flying in formation (to give overlapping arcs of fire) or are you doomed on a recce mission the second the opposition turns up?
    Historically, 2 seaters often were sitting ducks; the Be-2 series was infamous in this regard. That said, they could often give a good account of themselves. There's a famous instance of a German DFW C.V getting the best of ace Major J.T. McCudden flying a Se-5a, and finally had to give up, not being able to get a telling shot on it.
    Two-seaters were often escorted, or flew in formations for protection. For some missions (artillery spotting and photo recon), then often flew solo, depending on scouts patrolling the area to protect them. German practice was to escort them with 2 seaters of the same make, which would fight off attacking scout(s) while the mission expert escaped.
    In game terms, 2 seaters can be tough birds to take down, particularly if you don't use the altitude rules. There are a few threads discussing this, like this one:
    http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sho...hlight=seaters

    Karl

  20. #20

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    Ian, as to your comment about more purchases, it has only just begun. Once the world of WoG has its grip on you, it will drag you into collecting plane after plane, card set after card set, and once the dark side of WWII raises it head, you really doomed. Raise the white flag, clean out a room for your soon-to-be growing collection, clear some shelves for you upcoming library, and join the 'Drome's recovery group.

    As to rules, do what your group enjoys. In the end, WoG is a game, and whatever facilitates your enjoyment, feel free to employ. The rules, as written, are excellent, but you will see discussions on house rules appearing here almost daily. So much depends upon the players gathered at the table. We have not used two seaters but one time, hence my questions above as I was unfamiliar with RAW. Thinking about it, though, I don't see why it has to be considered complex. When you place the ruler down to see if you are within range, simply look at whether the ruler approaches the plane from the front or rear. Since this would preclude the pulling of chits, it actually seems easier to me. Again, I recommend you adopt whatever rule works best for the group at hand. At the end of the evening, if everyone goes home having had a good time, the rules employed worked just fine.

  21. #21

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    Rabbit, Doc, et al,

    contrary to being "sitting ducks", most 2-seaters were "tougher nuts to crack" than their single-seat counterparts. All things being equal (aircraft construction-wise), having a rear-seater to cover your blind zone is a BIG advantage. If you look at the historical record, "most" Aces racked up their kills against unsuspecting opponents, achieving their victory in the first few moments of battle, rather than after a long, drawn-out fight. With an extra set of eyes to scan for threats (and "check six"), 2-seaters are advantaged over single-seaters. Consider MvR, who was not a remarkable pilot but was a matchless "hunter" and considered "fancy flying" to be of secondary importance to being able to shoot effectively. He was generally unsuccessful vs 2-seaters and tended to avoid them.

    "But what about...?" I hear some of you saying. Yes, in a "dog-fight", single-seat scouts (typically with twin MG), with greater speed and maneuverability will enjoy some advantages but it is definately "one-sided". Some players have complained that two-seaters were... "unfair" and "too hard to kill". Not all two-seaters are the same, compare the sturdy, fast Breguet Br. 14 (or Bristol F2b)with the slow, frail RE 8. Yeah, the RE 8 is something of a "sitting duck" but because it was a mediocre aircraft (while cheap and effective) not simply because it was a "2-seater".

    That said, 2-seaters (and multi-engine aircraft) were not invulnerable; in fact, some had a reputation for being particularly vulnerable (ex. BE.2). To enhance survivability 2-seaters would sometimes fly in pairs or larger groups, with some two-seaters providing escort, while others conducted the actual mission. The later German "CL"-series aircraft frequently were employed as escort aircraft. As already suggested, single-seat scouts could also be tasked with flying "top cover". One tactic was to fly the planes in a clockwise (or counter-clockwise circle), with each plane covering the tail of the plane to it's front (BTW- this works for single-seat scouts as well). Another was to fly in tight formations to provide overlapping MG coverage (any attacker would be engaged by more than one defender).

    Just some "food for thought".

    Cheer!

    Chris

  22. #22

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    Oops!
    it should have read that in the contest of single-seat scout vs 2-seater, it is definately NOT "one-sided". I suspect that most readers could figure out what I meant, despite what I said.

    Chris

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    Overall I quite agree with your comments Chris and in game terms some of the two seaters can be formidable opponents.
    A game which put two B/B gun Bristol F2b`s against a larger force of Albatros scouts which resulted in the Albatri getting absolutely slaughtered springs to mind.

    With the R.E.8 though, performance wise the `K` deck is OK in itself but combined with a poor climb rate and low damage rating of 13 (lower than a lot of single seaters) its a challenging plane to play in smaller games against the planes that are its contemporaries .
    It`s NOT a dogfighter and the real plane was never intended to be so in order to do its job it needs backup in the form of escorts or wingmen.
    A single R.E.8 against German scouts is just `dead meat`without a good bit of luck.
    Its iteresting to compare it with the German Rumpler which is a similar sort of plane but with a better climb rate and a couple of additional hit points, a few minor changes and the survivability improves noticably.
    Last edited by Rabbit 3; 07-31-2013 at 03:26.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 7eat51 View Post
    Ian, as to your comment about more purchases, it has only just begun. .... Raise the white flag, clean out a room for your soon-to-be growing collection, clear some shelves for you upcoming library, and join the 'Drome's recovery group.
    .
    Yeah Eric I know what you mean... Bt my room is already full of model railway stuff (so's my garden but that's another story), 6mm Napoleonic wargaming, 28mm wild west gaming AND my son's Games Workshop stuff. 'Wings' was meant to be just a little test, a duel pack to dip our toes into the water, as it were... And already we're up to some 10 planes and I'm eyeing up the Rules and Accessories pack to boot... HELP

  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc R View Post
    Yeah Eric I know what you mean... Bt my room is already full of model railway stuff (so's my garden but that's another story), 6mm Napoleonic wargaming, 28mm wild west gaming AND my son's Games Workshop stuff. 'Wings' was meant to be just a little test, a duel pack to dip our toes into the water, as it were... And already we're up to some 10 planes and I'm eyeing up the Rules and Accessories pack to boot... HELP
    Just go with it. You'll have a lot more fun.

  26. #26

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    Yes, I'm a bit short on the ground (in the air would be better) with 2 seaters. I only have the Roland for the CP and RE8 and DH4 for the Entente. I would love to get some more different types but its all down to funds and what I have to let go to have them. swmbo found the spartans hiding place and has told me something has to go.....anyone want a spartan 28mm army?

  27. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Maes View Post
    Rabbit, Doc, et al,

    contrary to being "sitting ducks", most 2-seaters were "tougher nuts to crack" than their single-seat counterparts. All things being equal (aircraft construction-wise), having a rear-seater to cover your blind zone is a BIG advantage. If you look at the historical record, "most" Aces racked up their kills against unsuspecting opponents, achieving their victory in the first few moments of battle, rather than after a long, drawn-out fight. With an extra set of eyes to scan for threats (and "check six"), 2-seaters are advantaged over single-seaters. Consider MvR, who was not a remarkable pilot but was a matchless "hunter" and considered "fancy flying" to be of secondary importance to being able to shoot effectively. He was generally unsuccessful vs 2-seaters and tended to avoid them.
    Not quite right Chris, 46 of the Freiherr's 80 credited victories were 2 seaters (Kilduff 1976 p 165-6):

    FE2b - 12
    BE2c - 5
    FE8 - 1
    BE2e - 4
    BE2d - 6
    Sopwith 1-1/2 strutter - 3
    FE2d - 1
    RE8 - 8
    Bristol Fighter F2A - 2
    Bristol Fighter F2B - 3
    Armstrong Whitworth FK8 - 1

    It must be noted however that most were the obsolescent BE and FE series.

  28. #28

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    Carl,

    absolutely correct! The Red Baron (as you point out) had plenty of 2-seater kills, most of which were older, less maneuverable, frail 2-seaters (especially BE2, FE2b and RE8). OK, the FE2b was decent for it's day (as good as most Entente single-seat scouts- but they were dropping like flies as well!) but the BE2 and RE8 were both usefull aircraft (meaning that thet were used in great numbers) that werw know as "Fokker Fodder". The fact remains... all things being equal, 2-seaters have certain advantages over single seaters or, at the very least, are not "sitting ducks" simply because thet are "2-seaters".

    My comments about the Red Baron's aversion to attacking two seaters is based on a quote by him and mentioned in (IIRC) Under the Guns of the German Aces. Just because he enjoyed some success against 2-seaters does not mean that he prefered them as targets or found them "easy kills".

    Chris

  29. #29

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    Yes, let's not forget the unauspicious debut of the Bristol Fighter:

    The F.2A arrived on the Western Front in April 1917 as the British launched the Battle of Arras. The very first F.2A patrol of six aircraft from No. 48 Squadron RFC, led by Victoria Cross recipient William Leefe Robinson, ran into five Albatros D.IIIs from Jasta 11 led by Manfred von Richthofen. Four out of the six F.2As were shot down – including Robinson, who was captured – and a fifth was badly damaged.[7]
    -wiki

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    The thing is, the whole "The R.E.8 is a good/bad plane" argument has been going on since the type was withdrawn from service at the end of the war and plenty of hot air has been expended on both sides of the debate over the years.
    And since we now have a flying replica airbourne the whole thing has started up again with someone who recently flew it writing an article which falls into the "not as bad as it was painted" side.

    As far as the game goes, I think that the stats are a fair reflection of a plane that was probably after all a decent observation and photographic-reconnaisance platform but not a good combat type.
    I suspect some of its detractors may have had some personal axe to grind or perhaps had some limited bad experiences with it in training.
    Their seems to have been some issues over its stall characteristics when flown as a single-seater unless ballast was carried in the observers cockpit, something that would occur more often when used in the training role.
    Last edited by Rabbit 3; 08-01-2013 at 11:51.

  31. #31

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    Captain Richard Williams 1 Sqn AFC commented the RE8 was an improvement over earlier designs with the observer in the rear cockpit and was 'a gentleman's bus', 'easy to fly (but) lacked performance and was too slow and too big'.

    No.3 Squadron AFC proved that flown aggressively the RE8 could hold its own over the Western Front. The main problem was the type was very stable which as you said Robert was handy for observation and recon missions but not great when evading hostile aircraft.

  32. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc R View Post
    .. And already we're up to some 10 planes and I'm eyeing up the Rules and Accessories pack to boot... HELP
    If you are up to ten planes already you're beyond help Doc - but if you want to go cold turkey I can supply an address you can send your stuff to !!

  33. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skafloc View Post
    Yes, I'm a bit short on the ground (in the air would be better) with 2 seaters. I only have the Roland for the CP and RE8 and DH4 for the Entente. I would love to get some more different types but its all down to funds and what I have to let go to have them. swmbo found the spartans hiding place and has told me something has to go.....anyone want a spartan 28mm army?
    My good lady has told me that I have enough " little planes " now , but little did she know that I preordered two Siemen Schuckert's from AA, but then she did find out as she took in the parcel and I had to explain about my new additions to my collection , but little does she know that I intend to buy some more scouts for my Austrohungarian wing, I maybe sleeping on the couch if she finds them oh dear I'm doomed chaps as those new planes look so darn nice I've got to have more

  34. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    If you are up to ten planes already you're beyond help Doc - but if you want to go cold turkey I can supply an address you can send your stuff to !!
    Thanks Flash, but I think I can pull thru... I could stop buying whenever I wanted to... Really.... Really??

  35. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc R View Post
    Thanks Flash, but I think I can pull thru... I could stop buying whenever I wanted to... Really.... Really??
    Mwuhahahaha! It is too late for you Ian. I would be inclined to roll a D6 to decide (providing other players are happy enough).
    1-3 Pilot wounded
    4-6 Observer wounded.

    Flip a coin even. Anything that decides a 50-50 ratio quickly would do, unless you want to slow your game down.
    I love my DH.4 and RE8. But the DH.4 is a real bitch for DR.1's lol. Put the hammer down, and it takes anything a while to catch it.

  36. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc R View Post
    Thanks Flash, but I think I can pull thru... I could stop buying whenever I wanted to... Really.... Really??
    Mwuhahahaha! It is too late for you Ian. I would be inclined to roll a D6 to decide (providing other players are happy enough).
    1-3 Pilot wounded
    4-6 Observer wounded.

    Flip a coin even. Anything that decides a 50-50 ratio quickly would do, unless you want to slow your game down.
    I love my DH.4 and RE8. But the DH.4 is a real bitch for DR.1's lol. Put the hammer down, and it takes anything a while to catch it.

  37. #37

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    I have another question for resolving the crew damage for two seaters. In the RAP the rules say, (page 23 in the german version) that, after resolving with the red chits who was hit, a hit on the observer/gunner is kept secret. But thats impossible, because my opposite knows that I've used the chits and a pilot hit has to be announced - so in reverse, its oblivious when the observer was hit. Maybe thats a translating issue in the german version of the RAP? The card based system doesn't have this problem.

  38. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karo 7 View Post
    I have another question for resolving the crew damage for two seaters. In the RAP the rules say, (page 23 in the german version) that, after resolving with the red chits who was hit, a hit on the observer/gunner is kept secret. But thats impossible, because my opposite knows that I've used the chits and a pilot hit has to be announced - so in reverse, its oblivious when the observer was hit. Maybe thats a translating issue in the german version of the RAP? The card based system doesn't have this problem.
    Agreed! We always announce if its pilot or observer that is wounded.

  39. #39

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    Although they see you draw chits Florian I think the idea is not to tell them which one of your crew has been wounded, though they will soon figure it out when the rear gun opens up or not !

    "He is wise who watches"

  40. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    Although they see you draw chits Florian I think the idea is not to tell them which one of your crew has been wounded, though they will soon figure it out when the rear gun opens up or not !
    That's my feeling as well Dave.

  41. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    Although they see you draw chits Florian I think the idea is not to tell them which one of your crew has been wounded, though they will soon figure it out when the rear gun opens up or not !
    Of course you can handle this in that way, but the rule in the RAP stays contradictory. I will use the card based system instead of the chits. So a pilot hit could be announced and an observer hit can kept secret.

    Is there a pdf version (or rulebook template) of the RAP available, so I can make a corrected version on my own? The rules to be clarified become more frequent. Many of them are not covered with the official FAQ sheet (infantry trench fire every phase on AA MGs e. g.).

  42. #42

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    I've learned something new today, cheers for this Dave. Seems simple and easy to remember. great news.

    Neil

    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    In the new rules you can draw chits that indicate whether the pilot/observer or both are hit ! You can make or obtain the chits - got mine with a bomber.
    In the old WoW rules it depends on the amount of damage caused - if using the A deck a 3 and it is the pilot, a 5 it is the observer; if using a B deck it's 3 & 1 respectively. Put simply if it's a 3 it's the pilot that's hit ! This is my preferred method - much quicker to resolve
    See you on the Dark Side......

  43. #43

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    Question for the rules authors:

    Why would you have to announce a Pilot wounded result and not an Observer wounded result? Why would you announce either one, as it will either soon be obvious (when the Observer fires or fails to fire) or the Pilot fails to fire after certain maneuvers or takes longer than expected to clear weapons jams. I'd typically play it where it is kept secret but I cannot think of a reason where you would announce one result and not the other.

    Chris

  44. #44

    Default

    I have to admit that I have always wondered why as well Chris. In my own games I never do so. Just as it was in war, it is up to the opposing pilot to look for the signs.
    As far as Dave's idea is concerned, I still use the card method for two seaters. I only use chits for aircraft with crews of three or more. I can't see that it matters a jot as long as everyone in the game plays to the same rules.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  45. #45

    Karo 7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Maes View Post
    Question for the rules authors:

    Why would you have to announce a Pilot wounded result and not an Observer wounded result? Why would you announce either one, as it will either soon be obvious (when the Observer fires or fails to fire) or the Pilot fails to fire after certain maneuvers or takes longer than expected to clear weapons jams. I'd typically play it where it is kept secret but I cannot think of a reason where you would announce one result and not the other.

    Chris
    Thank you Chris, for putting the issue in a nutshell.
    Last edited by Karo 7; 04-20-2014 at 13:44. Reason: mistake

  46. #46

    Default

    Will someone with a bomber pack please post the number and types of chits for crew injuries?



    In the bomber packs I see that there is a chance for multiple crew to be hit by one burst.

    The 1:3 chits have a certain % assigned to them, and
    the 4+ chits have certain % assigned to HOW MANY crwe are hit.

    THEN you draw from another set of chits to determine WHO was hit by each result from the previous step. I, II, III, etc.

    I think I've lost some chits.. the ones I have left don't make any sense in proportions of hits..



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