Very nice planes Andrea....gotta make room in my hanger for those.
Wow this is the first I've seen about the Capronis being re-printed with different schemes. Got to say I like these better. Are the Gotha's going to be the first run ones or are they getting "make overs too"? Sorry if this has already been answered...
That's precisely what I think they SHOULD do. This way they hit the three important facets that I've listed before. They get:
a) A famous ace – Goring
b) A pretty plane half red half white lozenge wings
c) One thats good for repainting
d) A new scheme in the way they have two MvR Dr1s.
As mentioned an all white Fokker makes repainting hard as you have to fit lozenge decals under the wings with a lot of fiddling around cabine struts. I'm going to do one or two like this as I 'need' them but no more.
What's so frustrating about their choices is that there always seems to be better options that they don't go for leaving me baffled. However, I've no doubt Starks DVII will have near pink, not lilac paintwork, and with Li painted on it, it'll be a big seller for sure. I'm buying the MFJ one.
Last edited by Timmo UK; 04-10-2014 at 14:06.
Hard to please everyone. I'm longing for that All White desperately, & would be sorely disappointed if I got one w/ lozenge wings & a red nose at this point! Now after I got the All White, I'm sure I'd feel differently.
I'd agree with that!
I prefer the all white one as I do not have it....but I do understand your point.
I have also found that running a business isn't always fair.....IMHO when Ares picks a paint scheme their priority is not about making the re-painters like me or you happy. I thing some of them may consider it but the bean counters win in the end.
I'd agree regarding the repainters. In spite of the numbers of one model that we buy (for example I've bought 10 Rahn Dr1s) the information that we have does strongly suggest that the repaint market is really a dip in the ocean. However, putting that to one side I stand by my suggestion that the colour schemes chosen for some planes does seem to be curious given and fully accepting ARES understanding of their core market.
As an example, and a challenge I think that any one of us on this site could pick three paint schemes for the Albatros DVa or DIII that would have out sold, had the models been produced (or sold out faster) than the three models that were actually released. Take the first batch of the DVa – two pilots nobody had heard of and neither very interesting schemes. Why were they chosen in place of far more colourful and striking schemes. Even Google throws up a whole range of far more engaging colour schemes.
The first series of Albatros D.Va's was really an - interesting - choice to say the least. I like Weber's though, because it is a very stock looking variant compared to Udet's. But Jentsch's, which is another yellowish plane was quite unnecessary.
I would keep the looks balanced when it comes to colours. Not picking planes which look too much alike (like Udet and Jacobs are).
As for the D.III - That was always my least favorite WOW plane (simply because the spacing between the top wing and fuselage is way too large).
The paint schemes weren't the most brill choices there either. Ok there had to be a red one of course, with the interesting twist that it wasn't the red baron this time ;-) But Hautzmayr isnt really the first pilot who comes into my mind when i hear D.III and the look isnt too brill either.
Voss was more of a natural choice there. And surely popular too.
I think in general its a good idea to stick with aces who are at least a bit known. Thats a big appeal. I'm sure for example that a rather boring McCudden or Mannock Se5a would go quite well, just because its HIM (yes, I know. That sounds contradicting to my statement above about not having too uniform looking planes, but the British planes were for large parts VERY uniform looking. Hard to avoid really).
In the case of the Albatrosses: Richthofen (inevitably) and perhaps 1 other member of the bloody april scorer like Allmenröder, Wolff or Schäfer for the D.IIIs maybe. With one full red plane and the others in standard camo with red and their individual colours and markings you have a decent diversity.
For the 3rd D.III you still can pick something more unusual if it has to be ;-)
Last edited by Du doch nicht!; 04-12-2014 at 18:03.
I would say Voss is one of the best looking paint jobs...
Except it's wrong and could so easily have been right. The Three colour camo on the wings is totally inaccurate and the white stripes are missing. This plane is detailed in the Osprey book and I suspect can be found in seconds on line and yet they got it wrong!!
I very much hope they do Richthofen's DIII since it's both an iconic plane that is perfect for their market but also because it's a great plane to enable quick easy repaints for five or six others in Jasta 11 that are known. The Red DIII played to ARES liking of the graphic skull and cross bones and I can see why that's a good selling point but there are other planes with that motif that would fit into the range better and that would have freed up that DIII for another paint scheme. For example, they could have held the skull and cross bones back for the SSDIII of Jasta 15. This is all stuff off the top of my head without sitting down with all my reference materials out and working out a 1 to 5 year plan of releases.
What they did pick up on though is Jasta 5 with its colourful DVas and DIII in the special releases in box sets. It's just such a shame the first one is again wrongly painted and the second suffered from the poor wing profile issue that effects the whole of the re-issue of series 1.
The thing is, we have the luxury of know what plane types have been made... back in Series 1,2, and 3, they probably did not know what other minis they would be making over the next 5 years... or if there would even be another 5 years. So it's hard to "push" the skull and cross bones from the Red D.III (which is by far the best selling D.III and perhaps mini overall) to a SSDIII. Hind sight is always 20/20 as they say. Many of the early choices were also "political" in nature... they had to check the boxes on a lot of different countries.
Oddly I actually sold more Voss than Brumowski, although Brumowski is definitely the one most in demand on the secondary market these days.
The absolute stand-out seller is the Bishop SE5a, doubtless helped by the rather poor choices for the other SE5a schemes, that one leapt off the shelves. In general my top sellers are ones I do decals for (Rahn, Schafer, Lufberry, Udet), but I sold more of the Bishop one than any of those, in spite of the fact that I never released a decal sheet - it went so fast it was pretty much sold out before I had the time to do the research.
But to get this thread back on topic, here is the full list of Series 2 reprints. I've added links to the ones where I could easily find some images of the plane. I'm expecting the sells sheet on these sometime this week. Then I'll be able to show pics of the actual minis as well as put them on the site for pre-orders!
WGF115A Fokker D.VII (Goering) - Carryover
WGF115B Fokker D.VII (Sachsenberg)
WGF115C Fokker D.VII (Stark)
WGF116A Sopwith Snipe (Barker) - Carryover
WGF116B Sopwith Snipe (Kazakov)
WGF116C Sopwith Snipe (Sapozhnikov)
WGF203A Roland C.II (Von Richthofen) - Carryover
WGF203B Roland C.II (Luftstreitkräfte)
WGF203C Roland C.II (FFA 292b)
WGF204A AirCo D.H.4 (50th Squadron AEF) - Carryover
WGF204B AirCo D.H.4 (Cotton/Betts)
WGF204C AirCo D.H.4 (Bartlett/Naylor)
Oh, thanks - I've known the D.VIIs for quite a while, but not the others. No new British Snipe has to be the stand-out odd decision there - I can definitely see why they wanted a Russian one for variety, but two seems overkill. It'll be interesting to see what the new Rolands look like.
(And yeah, could be a British thing - similarly the AEF DH4 was the worst seller over here, but the one that they've brought back. My sales figures are definitely skewed by the fact that I cater disproportionately to repainters, but Bishop really stands out by a mile.)
Last edited by Dom S; 04-14-2014 at 07:17.
I suspect Nexus had a reasonable idea what they would be releasing at least three years ahead. If they didn't then I'm not surprised it failed for them. Investment was very significant and that wouldn't have been done without any long term business plan being in place, even if it was a flexible plan. What I'm driving at is that any one of us, in ten minutes, could work out what to aim to release over 5 years and then with a pile of easily obtainable books come up with a cracking range of paint schemes. Some would be quite plain to keep down production costs over a run. And we could still hit multi-national interest. As the two Russian Snipe releases indicate – again there is curious decision making that I maintain does them no good or the retailers either. Ideally for them they want three planes to sell equally well.
The plain Bristol Fighter of 22 sqd is already selling out in the UK – and that is a no brainer. What's curious to my mind is that they didn't choose a crazy/pretty home defence machine as well. The Iraq based one is going to be an acquired taste since I think most go the focus is on the classic Western Front theatre.
I'd have to look at the time frames again, but I think Nexus was circling the drain at what would have been the 3 year mark for the minis. But yes, we could all come up with a list of good planes/pilots in about 10 mins... but they would all be different.
As for the dual Russian Snipes this time around, I think they are looking to fill out the use of the Snipe post WWI. If I recall correctly, it saw a lot more use in the Russian Civil War than it did in WWI. We already have 3 Snipes with British markings, so that's enough for me.
Oh I want these so bad...as bad or worse than the LAST series!
Does this news give us any better idea of a release date, Herr Oberst?
I'm hoping that if you'll have pictures of the minis in the next week or so, we're looking at sometime this summer! Is that too optimistic?
What would be a suitable opponent for the Russian Snipes? It's not a period I know much, or actually anything, about.
Back on track…
I'm very much looking forward to the MFJ DVII and will buy that plus a few Gorings for some 'involved' repainting. I'm hoping when the Fokker DVIII comes out that there will be an MFJ machine in their selection. There was a great MFJ wasp stripped one that I'm hoping for.
I've also looked into other machines in Stark's Jasta for possible repaints to add to his 'Li'. I really like the naval DH4 and don't have any of those so may partake. This is so addictive.
The Snipe is a very late war British aircraft, pretty much a contemporary of the D.VII, so they make good opponents, hence I assume why they're being released together. Though I don't know much about the Russian Civil War, so I'm not even sure if any of the D.VII's made it to that front. I know some Dr.1's did. Zoe seems to be the most know the most about that theater, so hopefully she will illuminate further.
Nope, as long as the schedule holds, you can count the months on one hand with fingers left over
I'm no expert either, but the D.VII was one and so was the Sopwith Strutter. I imagine just about all late war planes found their way to that conflict in some form.
The two new D.VII make a good impression. The snipe, well, is a bit like the SSW D.III and D.IV or the Fokker D.VIII. Good machine, but too late to really play a role in the war. And since the snipes were almost all quite in standard-paint schemes, I understand the orientation to post-war scenarios.
As for the 2-seater: I might buy a Roland. I really like their design.
And about sales: I'm not really surprised Brumowski's Albatros sold well, but I didn't expect that well.
In general I think most buyer are certainly less historically informed than the people in this forum and likely buy 1) famous names and 2) cool looking paint schemes. So skulls and crossbones are surely seller.
There are some magnificent official Nexus cards depicting MANY of Polish/Soviet/Baltic States aircraft of the 1918-20 period. I used some of them to repaint some of the official minis. The variety of them makes the PostGreatWar scenarios very interesting (SPADs XIII and Snipes vs. Camels, Oeffags D.III vs. D.VII, Breguets against Nieuports)
These are my 1918-20 repaints.
"We do not stop playing when we get old, but we get old when we stop playing."
Surprised they didn't do this one -
I already have repaints of two Russki Snipes. Red star and Black star. The problem is that there aren't all that many choices for this aircraft. Sapozhnikov's crate had two different schemes at different times.
I like the D.VII selection - don't have either of the new ones.
The Walfisch - again, not much difference between them.
Ooooo! Pretty stripes! Where is that extra DH-4 . . .
The Ukrainian front saw some of the most intense air fighting of the war. Much was focused on the see-saw battles for Tsaritsyn (later Stalingrad) from June 14 to September, 1919. The WPAF and the bulk of its air forces here, with aircraft including Nieuport 28s, Spads, Pfalz D.IIIs, and Fokker Triplanes and DVIIs. Collishaw gained the first White victory on the southern front, shooting down a Red Albatross D.V.I've located photo evidence of some Red D.VIIs pre-1922.The Reds began with about 150 aircraft in total, organized into 36 squadrons as the Workers’ and Peoples’ Air Fleet. Many of the "squadrons" consisted of a single flight of two or three planes. Equipment was a virtual WWI museum, including compartively ancient Farmans and Morane-Sauliniers from 1914 and 1915, Spads, Nieuports, Caudrons, Sopwith 1½ Strutters, and, after March 1918, a number of discarded German Fokkers, Pfalzs, Halberstadts and LVGs. By the end of 1918, the WPAF had 52 squadrons, including some units equipped with the Fokker D.VII, the most modern fighter of the war.
The Bolsheviks never had strong presence in the air. They had about a dozen aircraft in the Arctic, comprising Caudron GIIIAs and a single Nieuport 28.http://www.avalanchepress.com/red_star_white_eagle.phpThe White and Allied forces based at Murmansk (a mix of British and French) had the support of a small number of British naval aircraft. The White Russians had 37 air and ground crew of the former Imperial Air Service (IAS), under Captain Alexander Kazakov. Kazakov, in the Imperial 19th Squadron’s “Death or Glory Boys,” had 17 or 19 confirmed kills (tallies vary) during the First World War, but 32 unofficial victories (aircraft which did not crash within Russian lines were not counted; the Imperial service apparently did not promote the cult of the “ace”). Equipment consisted of nine Nieuport 17C and Sopwith 1½ Strutters, late of the IAS, found still in their crates at Bakeritza. These aircraft were organized into two flights, later strengthened with some British reinforcements.
Kazakov used the Sopwith Snipe as his primary aircraft. By the middle of 1919, the White forces had suffered a number of serious reverses. Kazakov died August 1, 1919 while performing a stunt in a Snipe during an air show put on to improve morale. Some claim the captain had committed suicide. Ironically, the Red ace Sapozhnikov, with seven victories to his credit, would also die in a crash in 1920 while flying his captured Sopwith Snipe.
I'm sceptical of the "Nieuport 28" though.
Latvian aviation began with the defection of three pilots (later joined by a fourth) from the Red Air Force. Equipment comprised just three aircraft, a Nieuport 28 and two Sopwith 1½ Strutters, which were active against the Bermondist faction (an alliance of German Friekorps and White Russians) during the summer and fall of 1919. In December, the first Sopwith Camel was received from the British, while a captured German Fokker D.VII was made operational.
No, that's a 24bis.
http://riseofflight.com/forum/viewto...?f=112&t=38175It was sent to the Aegean on 10 November 1917 and arrived at No. 2 Wing RNAS at Murdos on 1 January 1918. It operated out of numerous aerodromes in the region eventually being assigned to 'F' Squadron, (or possibly 'C' Squadron depending on which source you reference), on Imbros in mid-1918. This is where the first incarnation of the sunburst was applied in white directly onto the PC10 color, and it was given the name "Moorq". Later on in the fall of the same year it was painted over with the colors you see above and the name was changed to "Sultan Selim II".
The white one will do fine for repainting for me. I usually white undercoat anyway, and my repaints need wing Camo decals so no problem there. However, for those who don't want all the fuss and bother, the choice of the repaints would seem less than ideal.
Rob.
"Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."
It comes down to technique and quality of paints then - plaster on a coarse grained craft paint, and it'll look rough, use a thinned modelling paint, it should be fine. If you're hardcore and airbrush, it should look immaculate.
The same applies for transfers to be honest - they can look like, well, stickers, with thick profiles and/or horrendous silvering, or end up so good they could have been printed straight onto the model, depending how well they're made and how carefully they're applied. Neither painting nor decalling is inherently superior - it boils down to the quality of the materials and how well they're used.
Here some sources for the Russian Civil War and other conflicts in Eastern Europe, just after 1918. D.VII were very popular there.
Revolutionary planes:
http://worldatwar.net/chandelle/v2/v2n1/redfighter.html
Against them (but with a Revolutonary Camel):
http://worldatwar.net/chandelle/v2/v2n3/whitfalc.html
http://worldatwar.net/chandelle/v3/v3n1/toomas.html
Poland:
http://worldatwar.net/chandelle/v2/v2n2/whitpole.html
Some repaints here:
http://bleaseworld.blogspot.it/2011_03_01_archive.html
http://bleaseworld.blogspot.it/p/wwii-gallery.html
Last edited by Angiolillo; 04-15-2014 at 20:59.
Some very useful links there thanks Andrea.
I was wondering what to do with my spare Camels.
Rob.
"Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."
I'm just making up a decal sheet for D.VIIs - Ukrainian, Polish, Hungarian, Czech, and Soviet. Lithuania and Latvia both had one (each) that saw action too. Most of the Soviet ones are post-1921, but they had a few before then. One source says the 15th aviatrad had D.VIIs, but the picture I've seen is 2 D.VIIs and a lot of Nieuports.
A problem with a lot of those profiles is that the aircraft were acquired (or made operational out of the crate) after the fighting was over.
My McAfee site adviser gives red warnings for those 'worldatwar.net' pages, Andrea. I do not know why.
Anyone else seen these "release dates" on the ARES site?
ARES News
Get your pennies ready for June?
Mike
Last edited by Jäger; 04-20-2014 at 11:04.
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