Series 2 Reprints

[Timmo UK]

Oberst Hajj,

Yes, and we really genuinely appreciate they work you are doing with ARES.

It would be interesting to hear from say a Belgian or Italian players/retailers on the matter of national preferences. A question for our American members: did you rush out to buy the American DH4? I bet the Red Baron sells equally well the world over as would a pile of gorgeous colourful Albatros models.

As you write once ARES have freed themselves from the tooling then they would be able to target specifics but I think my point about focus stands precisely because ARES have limited means. Do one thing well… I suspect even the newcomers don't really want Russian Snipes – what planes are there in the right markings of them to fight – my point about joined up thinking. I wonder how many of the dud S1 reprints are still unsold worldwide?

I only bother writing this stuff because I hope ARES read it and take note. Yes WoG sells and thank ARES has it survived but I want it to sell better so we see more of the models that we really all want in the future.

If we note which planes stay in the reprint ie. the best seller from each set of three thus far they have all been the most obvious Western Front models connected with the more famous pilots, usually a high scoring ace… so isn't it an obvious revenue stream to concentrate on those sorts of models until they can operate with new tooling?

I'd say the WW2 models are rather different since aircraft were extensively used in all theatres unlike in WW1 where most, but not all, of the aces were made on the Western Front. I'm not against the weird and wonderful at all but I think they come later once ARES have separate tools for each model, then they could take a leaf out of the model railway manufacturers book and release limited edition specials – get those in the right colours and they will sell out very very rapidly.

What they are getting right is the quality that seems to be improving with every release.

[Honza]

In short, it is time to reprint Wildcats and Dewoitines.

[Honza]

but take what I found when I went to Prague last month. The local game store there that all our Prague pilots fly at had 3 or 4 for the camo British Spitfires sitting on the shelf. You can't find those anywhere in the US, UK or Aussie. But there they were sitting on the shelves while all the other Spits were gone. Each geographical area wants different planes.

No. He's got those, because he happened to find them cheap somewhere and bought a load of them. Off the 3 the least favourite is the blue recon Spit, out of the others i shall be russian Hurry, Italian Stuka and i guess Martlets (butt ugly). They were sold out because he did not find any extra ones. As simple as that. Nothing to do with our geographical area at all.

[Пилот]

What about Fw-190's? Where are they?

[OldGuy59]

And that's the thing, if you run that poll on this site, you will get the response you expect.. but our ~100 active players are just a very small sampling of the gamers out there. I totally agree that Ares could do a better job with their release for us, but take what I found when I went to Prague last month. The local game store there that all our Prague pilots fly at had 3 or 4 for the camo British Spitfires sitting on the shelf. You can't find those anywhere in the US, UK or Aussie. But there they were sitting on the shelves while all the other Spits were gone. Each geographical area wants different planes. Pair that with limited production volume and working capital... and it's nearly impossible to get a perfect release.

None of us old timers wanted the Snipes, we already have them and they mostly gather dust. But new players do want them, so there were sales to be had. The fact that Ares reused the old Series 2 molds, meant we got equal numbers of Snipes as D.VIIs

I'm always hard at work on Ares to break those releases up and or print more of one type then the other.

Just a thought, comrades...

What are we doing, when we play Wings of War? Historical scenarios? One-on-one, or squadron-on-squadron, dogfights? What about tournaments?

This belongs in another thread (which should be started), but I think some interesting points have been brought up in this thread (like: Snipes as Pups! Thanks, Kev!).

Along with people trying to come up with a points system for this game, how do we run tournaments? My experience so far is one-to-one, same type used by each opponent dogfights. This completely levels the playing field, and doesn't require a points system. So, the historical basis is out the window, and it is down to skill in maneuvering your plane (and the luck of the damage drawn). Having two Snipes representing different sides of a conflict actually works really well in this tournament format.

As much as Games Workshop is reviled on this site, perhaps we could borrow some of their ideas. They used tournaments to promote and expand their game, including the Outrider Program ("Officially recognized" game hosts/coaches, for one). We will need a points system in the future, and that might enable Squadron vs Squadron contests. Or not.

There is a place for every plane put out so far, depending on how you are gaming, and I now have five each of the Snipes and D.VIIs to run my Friday Night Furball at BottosCon 2014 (Surrey, BC) in November. Not historical, perhaps not likely, but participants will have a blast, I hope.

Has someone done up the time-period, theater-specific, plane-types listing for WWI that Dan-Sam did with WWII official minis? You know, this one: General Overview of Released Minis - WWII

I soo need a cheat sheet like that for WWI. Someone out there smarter, and more knowledgable, than me jump in here. What plane do I put up against my "new" Pups? Yeah, it would be nice to repaint them, but then I'd need more Snipes for later periods. Oh. More Snipe sales?

So I'm all over the map. Sorry, but you guys started my inner squirrel...

[Пилот]

...how do we run tournaments? My experience so far is one-to-one, same type used by each opponent dogfights. This completely levels the playing field, and doesn't require a points system...

I had an idea for tournament:
1. Time frame (optional) - decide which period tournament covers. Is it 1915/16, whole war or just 1918, etc.
2. Choose any plane you want. After game 1 switch planes with your opponent and play game 2 against him.

This bypasses point system but doesn't exclude it, as it can be useful to balance things when playing larger clashes.

*Completely out of topic, but useful, I hope

[Timmo UK]

As you write this probably does deserve it's own thread. The problem I see with playing one-on-one dogfights is there is one very simple tactic that if you know it and use it at worst you level the odds, if your opponents doesn't know it you are 99% guaranteed a win. I had to give up playing one-on-one because once both my opponent and I had figured this out it was pointless us playing against each other, unless we had as many planes per side as we could manage. Once you go to a one-on-one tournament level everybody who stands a chance of winning will know this tactic and the games will purely be down to the luck of the damage deck and nothing else.

And don't ask me to explain this tactic – I'm not telling as it really will change your perception of the game – in other words it's a total spoiler.

Therefore a points system sounds good and maybe it needs to be a team based tournament. I guess uber planes could start the game with damage. I have a list of the time line for which planes can fight others for the second part of WW1. If I get time I'll draw it up and load it here somewhere.

[Diamondback]

Or combine points and time... and maybe the first month in service a given plane costs 2 extra points.

[john snelling]

Or combine points and time... and maybe the first month in service a given plane costs 2 extra points.

+1 for me.

[monse]

Has someone done up the time-period, theater-specific, plane-types listing for WWI that Dan-Sam did with WWII official minis? You know, this one: General Overview of Released Minis - WWII

I soo need a cheat sheet like that for WWI.

You may use this board for time-period.
It is valid for the time-period and only on western front (including italian front).

http://merlindex.free.fr/spip/IMG/pdf/chronologie.pdf

Explanation of the colour indications at the bottom of the board :
LIGHT BLUE activité marginale des premiers appareils livrés -> debut of first planes delivered
DARK BLUE activité en première ligne -> full activity on first line
VERY LIGHT BLUE/WHITE retrait progressif de la première ligne -> withdrawal from first line
RED interdiction de vol -> No fly (technical problem)

It has been made by Cyril ("Sir Erickson" on the Aerodrome), the french gamer who designed the future WW1 game mats.
http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sho...084#post138084

[Diamondback]

The idea behind the extra points first month is that generally new toys would be trickled out to elite/expert pilots and squadrons first--look at how long JG I's component squadrons flew Albatroses alongside the newer Dreideckers, or Barker getting a brand-new Snipe while with a squadron of Camels--so the higher cost is meant to reflect the extra "clout expenditure" needed to get one before they go "mainstream".

[csadn]

The idea behind the extra points first month is that generally new toys would be trickled out to elite/expert pilots and squadrons first--look at how long JG I's component squadrons flew Albatroses alongside the newer Dreideckers, or Barker getting a brand-new Snipe while with a squadron of Camels--so the higher cost is meant to reflect the extra "clout expenditure" needed to get one before they go "mainstream".

There's also the inevitable round of bug-clearance in any new unit -- for ex., that Fokker biplane in 1916 whose tail kept falling off, until it was finally shipped back for "home defense" (read: "put out to pasture"). So have a new model with a "bug" -- maybe it has to draw an add'l damage card if it takes an engine critical, or....

[Timmo UK]

However, I think there are equal cases where some pilots got the prototypes or early batches e.g. MvR and Voss with the Dr1 but many many squadrons and Jasta received full complements of new types all at once.

Does the game allow for any deferential between the Mercedes and BMW powered Fokker DVIIs? The latter were consider far superior.

[OldGuy59]

You may use this board for time-period.
It is valid for the time-period and only on western front (including italian front).

http://merlindex.free.fr/spip/IMG/pdf/chronologie.pdf

Explanation of the colour indications at the bottom of the board :
LIGHT BLUE activité marginale des premiers appareils livrés -> debut of first planes delivered
DARK BLUE activité en première ligne -> full activity on first line
VERY LIGHT BLUE/WHITE retrait progressif de la première ligne -> withdrawal from first line
RED interdiction de vol -> No fly (technical problem)

It has been made by Cyril ("Sir Erickson" on the Aerodrome), the french gamer who designed the future WW1 game mats.
http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sho...084#post138084

Mille mercis, Monse.

Ce n'est pas exactement celui que je souhaite avoir. Mais, il est proche.
(It's not exactly the one I wish to have. But it is close.)

I will cobble together a list of released official minis and relate it to the above list. Perhaps I will get close to what Dan-Sam did with WWII, and some of the Forum members can fine-tune it.

[Diamondback]

Mike, PM me your email--I have an Excel spreadsheet which you may find useful as a start point. (It's in the process of re-formatting, so there are some data inconsistencies.)

[OldGuy59]

Mille mercis, Monse.

Ce n'est pas exactement celui que je souhaite avoir. Mais, il est proche.
(It's not exactly the one I wish to have. But it is close.)

I will cobble together a list of released official minis and relate it to the above list. Perhaps I will get close to what Dan-Sam did with WWII, and some of the Forum members can fine-tune it.

First attempt is on this thread:General Overview of Miniatures - Timeline and Theaters

If I had a library and a week, I could sort out the different theaters all the planes showed up in. However, I do have a collective knowledge base that will help.

Thanks for the quick reference sheet, monse.
Thanks to Dan-Sam for the WWI General Overview of Minis thread, too.

[Zoe Brain]

The Unofficial Aircraft list has data about when aircraft came into service, both Official and Unofficial. It's divided up into 3 month intervals (17 Q2, 17 Q3 etc) as it is supposed to reflect when the aircraft could plausibly be seen in frontline combat, as opposed to superannuated aircraft used for training, or even familiarisation behind the lines of a new type just entering service. There's a fair bit of slack there, and on the Eastern Front, there were cases of long obsolete aircraft being used vs the most modern types.

[OldGuy59]

Zoe,
I'm trying to get more than just the time a plane was brought into, or taken out of, service. Dan-Sam's WWII list gave the miniatures (marks, color schemes) and what battles or theaters they could realistically be used for.

I'm trying to get a list like that for WWI. You could help on the other thread? General Overview of Miniatures - Timeline and Theaters

[Пилот]

Or combine points and time... and maybe the first month in service a given plane costs 2 extra points.

Also possible way.

[john snelling]

The Unofficial Aircraft list has data about when aircraft came into service, both Official and Unofficial. It's divided up into 3 month intervals (17 Q2, 17 Q3 etc) as it is supposed to reflect when the aircraft could plausibly be seen in frontline combat, as opposed to superannuated aircraft used for training, or even familiarisation behind the lines of a new type just entering service. There's a fair bit of slack there, and on the Eastern Front, there were cases of long obsolete aircraft being used vs the most modern types.

Great Charts. The only problem I have is the "front line" service. I guess to some it means the "Western Front". To me it means Front Line service no matter what front. My pet peeve is the timeline for Spad VII.
The Spad XIII engine was not known for it's reliability. Most French Spad units had Spad VII's to the end of the war.
From John Guttman:
Italian
77a Mar 17 to Nov 18
91a May 17 to Nov 18
Belgian
5eme Jul17 to Nov 18
US
41st, 103rd, 139th, 141st, 638th all used the in 1918.

I like the chart that Monse refers. http://merlindex.free.fr/spip/IMG/pdf/chronologie.pdf

Has always it is nice to read your postings.

[surfimp]

And don't ask me to explain this tactic – I'm not telling as it really will change your perception of the game – in other words it's a total spoiler.

I'm assuming you're referring to the tactic of using back-to-back Immelmanns to reduce a duel scenario to a series of head-on passes whereby the "luck of the draw" determines the outcome, assuming both pilots initiate the duel with roughly equivalent damage points remaining.

To which I reply: you must not be a SPAD pilot