Maneuver Decks: Artwork of WoW v. WoG

[Sashdash]

Hi there,

we started palying WoG from the beginning on and are hooked to this great game.
We prefer WW1 and seldom play WW2. As for WW2 we hated that Artwork for
the maneuver cards they launched.
And now I have to find out that with Ares this in my opinion really gross Artwork
is used for WW1 as well.

It may have been o.k. but in my opinion the gaming material has to work and not
just to look good.
We are really having problems to see the arrow on this new card artwork, especially
when playing in rooms with less light. The old cards were much better!
And if this new card design has to be, then why not borderline those dark blue line and
arrows with white?

Any opinions on this matter?

Do you prefer the old maneuver card design of WoW WW1 or the new one from WoG?

[Willi Von Klugermann]

I find the cards are somewhat dark as well making the lines difficult to see and my eyesight is excellent for my age. In addition the cards are not as pliable (they seem somewhat thicker) than the WoW decks and bow rather easily. Is this the same with the damage decks from the new Rules and Accessories Pack ?

[grumpybear]

The only cards I have trouble with are 109's you can't even see the arrow in sun lite

[Suffern]

There are pluses and minuses to both but, overall, I think the old cards were more legible and therefore better. The cross on the arrow is a good addition on the new cards, especially for explaining to new players how the plane is placed after movement. But the black points were much better than the new blue ones.
The backgrounds are just different, although the old ones yielded better contrast.
In a nutshell, the new ones might be considered 'prettier' but the old ones were more functional.

[OldGuy59]

I have all the Nexus box sets, and thanks to the unfortunate departure of a player that I shamelessly took advantage of (thanks Pollux66), I have a bunch of Nexus minis.
When playing two-on-two scenarios (solo especially), I try to use one each of Ares and Nexus maneuver decks to keep from mixing up the cards (hate to end up with all the straight cards in one deck, and all the Immelmanns in the other).

However, as Sasha and others say, the arrows on the Ares cards are a real problem for me. It takes concerted effort to use the dark cards, and find the arrows. It actually slows the game down, when moving a few minis at a time (this really counts when moving all the minis in a Skype game). Accuracy is an issue, too, when sharing a game on Skype, and ensuring the planes move the same on each table (host table and distant player table). More visible arrows would help.

For me, despite the advantage of keeping decks separated, I really prefer lighter backgrounds and dark arrows (a contrasting color border on the arrow is an awesome idea, too).

Mike :-)

[Komorigumo]

I feel like an odd man out

I prefer the new cards to the old ones. Aethetically they are more pleasing to me, which in turn adds a lot to the overall game experience. I like the new (darker) background, and I especially like the new icons for special damage. I can appreciate the complaints so far; I simply don't share them (yet).

[Air Battle Mgr]

I agree with Todd, I like the new cards. The darker background feels more tactical to me. It has be tough for the game designers to find a happy medium.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

I did not have any real preference, until we started playing under poor lighting conditions at a convention.
Then the new cards really fail my poor eyesight.
Rob.

[Пилот]

I prefer WoW design, but new ones are OK after some time, too.
For damage I use those:

[David Manley]

The new cards, counters etc. are OK under bright lights. In anything less though they are, to my eyes at least, practically unreadable.

[Guntruck]

Yes, pretty difficult to read in anything other than ideal light conditions.

[Boney10]

I like the artwork of WoG but as has already been mentioned they are a bit on the dark side, so my vote goes WoW

[greenalfonzo]

I think the WOW art was really better.

[Nightbomber]

Good old Nexus artwork. I second that, chaps.

[Doug]

Like others in this thread I have eye sight problems, I like the new cards, but prefer the old cards as I can play them without my glass's on!

[flash]

I thought it was just me !
Much prefer the WoW manoeuvre cards and the damage decks come to that which I find easier to interpret and better looking.

[john snelling]

The older ones are so much easier to see.

[milcoll73]

i much prefer the WoW decks over the new ones. the new ones are way too dark. we had one come to a screeching halt while we all searched our decks and the floor for one card. turns out the card was sitting on ricks new mat the whole time it just blended into the background. the card number of deck is WAY, WAY too small. i literally need a magnifying glass to see it. about the only thing i like about the new cards is the line at the base of the arrow but all too often its lost in the too dark background.

i cant say much about the damage deck as rick and i only have the new ones but i will say the engine hit is way to similar to the jam symbol and often leads to confusion.

[milcoll73]

i much prefer the WoW decks over the new ones. the new ones are way too dark. we had one game come to a screeching halt while we all searched our decks and the floor for one card. turns out the card was sitting on ricks new mat the whole time it just blended into the background. the card number of deck is WAY, WAY too small. i literally need a magnifying glass to see it. about the only thing i like about the new cards is the line at the base of the arrow but all too often its lost in the too dark background.

i cant say much about the damage deck as rick and i only have the new ones but i will say the engine hit is way to similar to the jam symbol and often leads to confusion.

[LOOP]

I to prefer the WoW decks over new ones. The reason is the same as all of you allready said.
But one thing is much better on the new damagedecks. The fact that Ares has put the deck-letter on the back.
On the old WoW damage-decks looked the same when faced down.
At the beginning of a game there where no problem. (the A-deck has more cards) but towards the end when the decks contain aboute
the same amount of cards it is easy to pick the wrong deck. I can also agree aboute the symbols for enginehit and jamming. They are much to similar in the new decks.

[Savoir Faire]

I don't see a whole lot of difference between the two versions (WoW and WoG) in WGS. They both have problems.

It's all about legibility for me. I'd prefer the cards actually had NO artwork other than the maneuvers and related information. That or very muted scenery.

[LOOP]

Well, a card with only gaming in mind is of course best to play with but a bit boring.
A manouver-card must be just that "a manouver-card". It must be able to present its data in an easy way.
No questions aboute that. But say a plain grey card with a white line and black arrow really would be dull.
I like the artwork and I don't find them compromising the function of the card. But the colours on the WoW makes them easer to use.

[LOOP]

I also use the artwork to tell some decks apart

[surfimp]

I like the artwork on each just fine, but the new WoG cards really do disappear into the new WoG playmats, even in good light. Not convinced that using the same artwork for the cards and mats was such a good idea, especially with the low contrast between blue arrow and background.

In addition, it seems like the finish on the new WoG cards isn't quite as good as the old WoW cards. On the WoG cards, the finish seems to wear off quick and get "sticky", whereas the older WoW cards stay smooth and silky seemingly forever.

I've also seen that there can be a lot of color variation, especially for the damage cards. We've collected one RAP pack and both of the WoG duel packs and the ink saturation of the damage cards varies notably between them. Some are darker and more vibrant, others are more washed out looking. Same for the cockpit cards... the top ('basic') sides look good, but the backsides get a little... 60s tie-dye looking.

One thing I do like better about the WoG maneuver cards is the small line at the top of the arrow on the maneuver cards for aligning the base... this leaves a little less room for "interpretation", which my OCD tendencies appreciate.

With all of that said... WoG is absolutely great and none of these trivial quibbles detract from the immense amount of enjoyment my family is having with the game.

[Flying Helmut]

I replace the WOG deck with a WOW deck whenever possible - in my KR multicases there are now very few Ares minis which still have their original Ares deck.

Reasons: the same as most of you - the new cards are too difficult to read, and "lost" cards slow the game down (plus the engine damage/gun jam symbol similarity!)

[milcoll73]

I like the artwork on each just fine, but the new WoG cards really do disappear into the new WoG playmats, even in good light. Not convinced that using the same artwork for the cards and mats was such a good idea, especially with the low contrast between blue arrow and background.

In addition, it seems like the finish on the new WoG cards isn't quite as good as the old WoW cards. On the WoG cards, the finish seems to wear off quick and get "sticky", whereas the older WoW cards stay smooth and silky seemingly forever.

I've also seen that there can be a lot of color variation, especially for the damage cards. We've collected one RAP pack and both of the WoG duel packs and the ink saturation of the damage cards varies notably between them. Some are darker and more vibrant, others are more washed out looking. Same for the cockpit cards... the top ('basic') sides look good, but the backsides get a little... 60s tie-dye looking.

One thing I do like better about the WoG maneuver cards is the small line at the top of the arrow on the maneuver cards for aligning the base... this leaves a little less room for "interpretation", which my OCD tendencies appreciate.

With all of that said... WoG is absolutely great and none of these trivial quibbles detract from the immense amount of enjoyment my family is having with the game.

steve you should try sleeving your cards. ive sleeved all mine as i started to notice some significant wear on the cards of the more popular a/c. i demo a lot at my local games store so my minis get a good amount of play. sleeves present some problems of thier own (they tend to stick together until they wear a bit if they get too warm or any moisture) but at least they protect your cards.

[surfimp]

I've considered sleeves, thanks for the suggestion!

I guess having played so much that wear & tear becomes an issue is a good thing, in the grand scheme

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Steve.
I always put my cards in plastic sleeves for that reason. it keeps sticky fingers and spilt G&T off the surfaces, to say nothing of sheep poo.
Rob.

[milcoll73]

I've considered sleeves, thanks for the suggestion!

I guess having played so much that wear & tear becomes an issue is a good thing, in the grand scheme

aint it the truth my wingman!!!!!

[milcoll73]

Steve.
I always put my cards in plastic sleeves for that reason. it keeps sticky fingers and spilt G&T off the surfaces, to say nothing of sheep poo.
Rob.

"SHEEP POO." ?!??!???!???!??!? WHO THE HE......errr....uhhhmmm......heck are you gaming with?!?!???!?


ps have you ever played "settlers of catan"?

[surfimp]

I wasn't going to touch that... if you know what I mean

[milcoll73]

I wasn't going to touch that... if you know what I mean

not even with velcro gloves.................................!

[milcoll73]

I wasn't going to touch that... if you know what I mean

not even with velcro gloves.................................!

[csadn]

"SHEEP POO." ?!??!???!???!??!?:erk::puke: WHO THE HE......errr....uhhhmmm......heck are you gaming with?!?!???!?:eek:

He lives in Nottinghamshire -- this surprises you? ;)

[Teaticket]

I find the new cards a pain while playing. Many times cards disappear on the mat since they ahve the same art on them. More than once now I have had a card played match the terrain it was placed on. The card then blends in perfectly with the mat and is forgotten. The darker blue arrow lines are hard to see on some cards.
The damage cards were much better. Now the symbols look too much alike and some special damage can be easily mistaken for something else.

All in all I prefer the old cards. Like Max, I think the card should primarily be functional, not a distraction. The art underneath should be muted more.

[milcoll73]

He lives in Nottinghamshire -- this surprises you?

id guess theyre known for sheep?

[flash]

Rob is an English civil war re-enactor and takes a WoG 'travel set' into the field for evening entertainment - I'm sure he'd tell you himself but he is engaging the Royalists as we speak !

[surfimp]

"In the field" - if sheep poo is an issue, I guess he's quite literally in the field!!

[csadn]

"In the field" - if sheep poo is an issue, I guess he's quite literally in the field!!

You've probably never heard the jokes about "the three level of Re-Enactor -- Farb, Authentic, and Hardcore":

CHOICE OF BATTLEFIELD:

Farb: Football fields; parade grounds.

Authentic: Farmland, city parks.

Hardcore: "Hey, Mr. Ranger -- can we entrench here?"

[csadn]

"In the field" - if sheep poo is an issue, I guess he's quite literally in the field!!

You've probably never heard the jokes about "the three level of Re-Enactor -- Farb, Authentic, and Hardcore":

CHOICE OF BATTLEFIELD:

Farb: Football fields; parade grounds.

Authentic: Farmland, city parks.

Hardcore: "Hey, Mr. Ranger -- can we entrench here?"

[surfimp]

Tangentially related to this thread - for those dissatisfied with the stock cards and wanting to substitute cards with their own preferred artwork, or are creating their own cards for planes that haven't been officially released by Nexus / Ares yet, what is the standard operating procedure?

Print on nice quality paper with an inkjet, then insert into a sleeve and call it good?

I've yet to find a custom playing card printer who does the 44mm x 68mm size of the WoW / WoG cards.

[milcoll73]

You've probably never heard the jokes about "the three level of Re-Enactor -- Farb, Authentic, and Hardcore":

CHOICE OF BATTLEFIELD:

Farb: Football fields; parade grounds.

Authentic: Farmland, city parks.

Hardcore: "Hey, Mr. Ranger -- can we entrench here?"

far be it for me to question the "authenticity" of this post..................

[Biggles downunder]

The new cards, counters etc. are OK under bright lights. In anything less though they are, to my eyes at least, practically unreadable.

I have to agree David. Baxter and I played our usual Monday Night of Mayhem Last night and we both really struggled with the newer cards. As has been already stated, the contrast is just way off the mark in anything except perfect light, which my dining room definitely does not have! Oh, did I mention older eyes

[csadn]

far be it for me to question the "authenticity" of this post..................:serious::embarrass::cheezy::slysmile:;);););):p

Well, we are known for our Fantastic And Ridiculous Behavior.... ;)

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Well, we are known for our Fantastic And Ridiculous Behavior....

Thanks for clearing that up for me Chris!
I only mentioned it because you can clean Cow Poo off the cards, but not sheep poo! Even a spilt G&T won't shift it.

Rob.

[Mrkev]

Admittedly I don't have any experience with the WoW decks, but I've never had any problem with the WoG cards to be honest. Maybe I have x-ray vision and I don't know it?

[Baxter]

I am 63, wear glasses, and I still cannot read any text on the plane cards apart from the big fonted items on the bottom left. I have put a much more powerful globe in the dining room and can read all the movement cards okay. So I would advise anyone having problems to do the same. Upgrade your light globes.

Baxter

[Sashdash]

Just to show you the difference between the old design (upper cards) of the maneuver decks and the new one (bottom cards)
I have taken a picture of three maneuver cards from the O-Deck of the Siemens Schuckert.



On the new design especially when the dark blue arrow lands on a dark background it is hard to see.
The picture I took was lightened by the flashlight of my camera. Normaly the scene is darker.
The old design had no problem even when lighting conditions were suboptimal.

But decide for yourself.

Cheers
Sascha

[Lohengrin]

Contrast isn't the only measure. The art of the new cards is better and more realistic, and at least I can make out the arrows well enough. Board games aren't really made for old men with failing eyesight. Alas.

[LOOP]

Contrast isn't the only measure. The art of the new cards is better and more realistic, and at least I can make out the arrows well enough. Board games aren't really made for old men with failing eyesight. Alas.

No they are not made for "old men" but they still should be easy to read and use.