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Thread: Number of cards in a damage deck?

  1. #1

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    Default Number of cards in a damage deck?

    Just curious if the number of cards matters? I purchased the RAP and was looking at a duel pack to get the frank Luke mini. The duel pack comes with an A damage deck. Could I combine them or should I keep them separate?

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by TGalante View Post
    Just curious if the number of cards matters? I purchased the RAP and was looking at a duel pack to get the frank Luke mini. The duel pack comes with an A damage deck. Could I combine them or should I keep them separate?
    Two decks are better than one.
    You don't run out in larger games for 4 or more planes, and if the Bang card is gone, players still can't breathe too easily, because there is always another one in there somewhere. Plus a big bomber or balloon barrage can pull out a lot of hit cards.
    Also if using the limited ammo option, you don't start off with only about half a pack left. I have doubled up all four of my decks for these reasons.
    Rob.

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    Thanks. I wasn't sure if there was a specific amount or what. Thanks again

  4. #4

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    We normally add a 2nd A or B deck dependent on plane type for every 3-4 of that type in play.

  5. #5

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    The Nexus Deluxe Set and Revised Deluxe Set actually each contained a double A deck, since they contained 4 A-firing airplanes. Putting two A deck together will work the same way.

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    Do you suggest a deck per side is one way to mange decks during a multi plane game?

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by STEPHEN NAPIER View Post
    Do you suggest a deck per side is one way to mange decks during a multi plane game?
    It is one way, but it will let everyone know if that sides Bang card has gone, and one per side is not really enough if you are flying more than four aircraft.
    Rob.

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    Thanks for the feedback.

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    So roughly 1 deck for every 2 aircraft? Sounds to be the consensus.

  10. #10

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    There are a lot of A damage planes. At least all the planes I have are A damage. Getting both duel packs will let you keep one off to the side if needed. And for extra crazy games, put the BANG!! cards back in after it is pulled. This way the games have a sense of urgency as the small the deck gets the higher the chance for "OMG I Died!!" fun. I would only really do that for pick up games and not campaigns like the ones here.

  11. #11

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    It still depends on how long the mission is (dogfight or can be completed earlier on). But I have about two B decks and one A deck and have never run out, even in 4v4 games (mission, not dogfight)

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by STEPHEN NAPIER View Post
    Do you suggest a deck per side is one way to mange decks during a multi plane game?
    I've played club games like that Steve & it works really well as both sides have the same chances of getting special damage - once a pilot 'goes in' then his damage cards should be shuffled back into the deck, that way a boom card will be ever present.
    A damage deck should cater for a 4 aircraft dogfight easily enough, that's what it was designed for after all, but most people will use double decks because they have them.

  13. #13

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    Even in 1 on 1 games I always tend to play with 2 decks. And for multi games I also like to have more decks than players, if possible.

  14. #14

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    Are the WOW and WOG damage decks the same?
    Thanks
    Scotty

  15. #15

  16. #16

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    So, 3A + 2B + C + D damage decks is enough for 10 planes using A & B dmg decks A. Good to know

  17. #17

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    2 decks for me no matter how many are playing.

  18. #18

    Vidarsson
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    I replaced cards with tokens drawn from the bag. Now I use three sets of damage -A-. My son loves it!

    http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/att...0&d=1373734149

  19. #19

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    I really like the chit idea.

  20. #20

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    I also use chits. Now I'm trying to persuade my group (and it goes well, for now) to use deck per person. Idea is that every player has his own set of decks (A,B,C,D), which would allow equal chances for every one. So, it couldn't happen that somebody takes all 5s and 4s leaving others to cope ( ) with lesser cards.

  21. #21

    Vidarsson
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    Quote Originally Posted by Пилот View Post
    I also use chits. Now I'm trying to persuade my group (and it goes well, for now) to use deck per person. Idea is that every player has his own set of decks (A,B,C,D), which would allow equal chances for every one. So, it couldn't happen that somebody takes all 5s and 4s leaving others to cope ( ) with lesser cards.
    I totally agree!

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Пилот View Post
    I also use chits. Now I'm trying to persuade my group (and it goes well, for now) to use deck per person. Idea is that every player has his own set of decks (A,B,C,D), which would allow equal chances for every one. So, it couldn't happen that somebody takes all 5s and 4s leaving others to cope ( ) with lesser cards.
    Great idea !

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    While chits are a good idea, where every player has a set of their own. I prefer to use the cards, but after marking down the information, then return the cards to the deck and reshuffle after every draw.

  24. #24

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    That seems a fair way of doing it, great idea

  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Combat wombat View Post
    Are the WOW and WOG damage decks the same?
    Thanks
    Scotty
    Only real difference is the change in graphics which would make combining the old and new cards in to a single deck awkward, otherwise they are the same.

  26. #26

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    Hmmm, I thought I was playing with only one, until I saw this post and did some checking. It appears that I've been using 3 decks; two from the WGF WW1 Duel Packs plus one from the WGF WW1 Rules & Accessories Pack (but someone alluded to the fact that there's two A & B decks ?)

    I also have three more decks damage decks from Famous Aces, Watch Your Back and Burring Drachens. However, we haven't used them since our first big game because once stacked upside down, one cannot tell which deck is which like the Wings of Glory line.

    Although using three decks, we normally have anywhere from 4 to 6 planes in the air during our game with the most ever being 10!

    Some one from our local group asked me how many types & points were in each deck, so I came up with this spreadsheet...

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Damage Card Percentile.jpg 
Views:	177 
Size:	129.5 KB 
ID:	98823

    PS I have this as PDF, but couldn't attach it here, so used a jpeg...

  27. #27

    Vidarsson
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    I tried to play using dice system (2d10) based on damage card percentile but there is more fun using chits or cards.

  28. #28

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    Hey everyone,

    Keith's Knights in the Air Campaign uses the following formula. If you have the decks available I think it works perfectly. So, of course, we use it for my campaign.

    Create Community Damage Decks
    Before a mission create the community damage decks. Determine the total number of Type A and Type B weapons and consult the below chart.

    Damage Decks
    1 2 3 4 5 6 7
    Type A Weapons 1-2 3-5 6-8 9-11 12-14 15-17 18-20
    Type B Weapons 1-3 4-7 8-10 11-14 15-18 19-21 22-25

    Cheers,
    Michael

  29. #29

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    Vidarsson,
    Dice do not work the same way as a deck of cards. With dice you could get, for example, two 4-damage rolls in a row for B deck guns. That is impossible with a single deck. With dice you have the same chance of 'drawing' any particular result on every die roll. You could do it but the overall results will skew.

    It works but it changes the game. Not that changing a game is a bad thing, in and of itself, but the game becomes something different.

    I had considered it (using dice) as I was hemming and hawing over what to do when I found I had not enough damage cards for some scenarios. My solution is not perfect (yet <g>) but it works. I think many of us are strapped for damage decks, especially the B deck. It would be nice if they were purchasable separately but I guess we can not have everything.

  30. #30

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    I think for in house, non-competition/tournament games you use whatever works for your group. I would tend to go with the official decks for competitions/tournaments and not use any in house rules. However for demonstration games and participation games you could include specific scenario based in house rules as long as they are fully explained before hand.

  31. #31

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    The new RAP has 35 cards in the A deck and 44 in the B deck. Can't remember if the WoW B decks were as large.

  32. #32

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    The old set had A deck with 35, B with 44, C with 17, D with 8.

    Quote Originally Posted by Willi Von Klugermann View Post
    The new RAP has 35 cards in the A deck and 44 in the B deck. Can't remember if the WoW B decks were as large.

  33. #33

  34. #34

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    This thread called to my mind something I've been thinking about: the design decision to go with "damage decks."
    Especially since the cards drawn are not immediately replaced, it certainly effects the odds w/r/t damage in a way that rolling dice wouldn't.
    Is there a conceptual justification for doing this? Are the probabilities generated by this method supposed to replicate better what actually occurred during WWI dogfights?
    Just wondering.

  35. #35

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    I like rolling dice, but having cards reduces record keeping. Keeping the game easier to manage.

  36. #36

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    There was a long discussion on this some years ago James with a lot of very astute people doing a lot of very complicated sums.
    To alleviate the perceived problem problem we advocated at the time using two or more decks, or one deck for each side.
    Personally I don't care too much. You win some, and you lose some. The only reason I use multiple decks is for the sake of the card counters, who think that once the bang card has gone, that is it.


    Wrong!
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  37. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    The only reason I use multiple decks is for the sake of the card counters, who think that once the bang card has gone, that is it.


    Wrong!
    Rob.
    Surprise!

  38. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vidarsson View Post
    I replaced cards with tokens drawn from the bag. Now I use three sets of damage -A-. My son loves it!

    http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/att...0&d=1373734149
    Hmm...

    Can anyone else see a WWI Damage Chit Graphic project in this idea?

    Round or square? Make the design use able for either?
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  39. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGuy59 View Post
    Hmm...

    Can anyone else see a WWI Damage Chit Graphic project in this idea?

    Round or square? Make the design use able for either?
    Square would certainly be easier to produce, but I like the thought of round.

  40. #40

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    Another game I'm fond of, "Conflict of Heroes," uses square damage chits that are drawn randomly throughout the game. The system works quite well.
    However in that game, units can be rallied (or quickly eliminated), and when that occurs the chits frequently return to the container.

    If damage chits were used for WoG, I imagine they'd still remain on their respective planes for the remainder of the game.
    The key, it would seem to me, is to get the number of chits correct, so that the chit pulls near the end of the game aren't dramatically skewed in one direction or another.

    But in terms of odds, this is no different than playing with multiple damage decks.

  41. #41

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    I've played Conflict of Heroes, and like the system.

    Chit draws work for WGS, and should work for WGF... so long as the numbers & special damage results remain consistent with the cards.

  42. #42

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    For big games each plane base has a disc with a number.
    When a hit is made the player just calls out something like Red 7 hit 2 a chits.
    I draw damage and write it on a master sheet. Then return chit to bag.
    That way chits remain in play. You can tell the player privately if any important info is needed that other players are not allowed to hear.
    I suppose you could do the same for WW1 cards.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  43. #43

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    Back when I got my boxed sets of Wings of War, one of the first things I did was inventory the cards. If you want to re-create the system using chits or percentile dice they go as follows: (Note: some percentages may not total 100, due to rounding)
    Analysis of A deck damage (two machineguns): 35 cards total:
    9x0, no special (26%)
    1x0, red jam (3%)
    1x0, green jam (3%); note that together, these two are rounded up, but the total of them together is 5.7%, so rounded is still 6)
    Total of all misses (0 damage), 11 cards, 31%
    Total of all zero damage cards, with specials: 2 cards, 18% (that is, 18% of all 0 damage cards also have a special)

    5x1, no special (14%)
    1x1, rudder jam, no right (3%)
    1x1, rudder jam, no left (3%)
    Total of all "1" damage, 7 cards, 20%
    Total of all 1 damage cards with specials, 2 cards, 29%

    1x2, no special (3%)
    1x2, red jam (3%)
    1x2, green jam (3%)
    1x2, rudder jam, no right (3%)
    1x2, rudder jam, no left (3%)
    1x2, fire (3%)
    Total of "2" damage cards, 6 cards, 17%
    Total of "2" damage cards with specials: 5 cards, 83%

    3x3, no special (9%)
    1x3, engine damage (3%)
    1x3, crew wounded (3%)
    Total of "3" damage cards, 5 cards, 14%
    Total of "3" damage cards with specials, 2 cards, 40%

    2x4, no special (6%)
    1x4, smoke (3%)
    Total of "4" damage cards: 3 cards, 9%
    Total of "4" damage cards with specials, 1 card, 33%

    1x5, no special (3%)
    1x5, crew wounded (3%)
    Total of "5" damage cards: 2 cards, 6%
    Total of "5" damage cards with specials, 1 card, 50%

    1 Explosion (3%)

    Total of red jams: 2 cards, 6%
    Total of green jams: 2 cards, 6%
    Total of all jams: 4 cards, 11%
    Total of rudder jam, no right: 2 cards, 6%
    Total of rudder jam, no left: 2 cards, 6%
    Total of fire: 1 card, 3%
    Total of engine damage: 1 card, 3%
    Total of crew wounded: 2 cards, 6%
    Total of smoke: 1 card, 3%
    Total of explosion: 1 card, 3%
    Total of all specials: 12 cards, 34%

  44. #44

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    Analysis of B deck damage: (1 machinegun): 44 cards total
    13x0, no special (30%)
    2x0, red jam (5%)
    2x0, green jam (5%)
    Total of miss cards: 17 cards, 39%
    Total of miss cards with special: 4 cards, 24%

    5x1, no special (11%)
    1x1, red jam (2%)
    1x1, green jam (2%)
    1x1, rudder jam, no right (2%)
    1x1, rudder jam, no left (2%)
    1x1, fire (2%)
    1x1, smoke (2%)
    1x1, crew wounded (2%)
    Total of "1" damage cards: 12 cards, 27%
    Total of "1" damage cards with specials: 7 cards, 58%

    4x2, no special (9%)
    1x2, rudder jam, no right (2%)
    1x2, rudder jam, no left (2%)
    1x2, engine damage (2%)
    1x2, fire (2%)
    1x2, smoke (2%)
    Total of "2" damage cards: 9 cards, 20%
    Total of "2" damage cards with specials: 5 cards, 56%

    3x3, no special (7%)
    1x3, crew wounded (2%)
    Total f "3" damage cards: 4 cards, 9%
    Total of "3" damage cards with specials: 1 card, 25%

    1x4, no special (2%)

    1 Explosion (2%)

    Total of red jams: 3 cards, 7%
    Total of green jams, 3 cards, 7%
    Total of all jams: 6 cards, 14%
    Total of rudder jams, no right: 2 cards, 5%
    Total of rudder jams, no left: 2 cards, 5%
    Total of fire: 2 cards, 5%
    Total of smoke: 2 cards, 5%
    Total of crew wounded: 2 cards, 5%
    Total of engine damage: 1 card, 2%
    Total of explosion: 1 card, 2%

    Total of B deck specials: 18 cards, 41%

  45. #45

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    Analysis of C deck damage: (cannon): 17 cards total:
    9x0, no special (53%)
    1x1, no special (6%)
    1x2, no special (6%)
    1x4, fire (6%)
    1x6, engine damage (6%)
    1x6, crew wounded (6%)
    1x8, smoke (6%)
    1x10, no special (6%)
    1 Explosion (6%)

    Total of fire: 1 card, 6%
    Total of engine damage: 1 card, 6%
    Total of crew wounded: 1 card, 6%
    Total of smoke: 1 card, 6%
    Total of explosion: 1 card, 6%

    Total of "C" deck specials: 5 cards, 29%

    Analysis of "D" deck damage: (rockets): 8 cards total:
    3x0, no special (38%)
    1x3, fire (13%)
    1x6, fire (13%)
    1x9, fire (13%)
    2 Explosions

    Total of fire: 3 cards, 38%
    Total of explosions: 2 cards, 25%
    Total of "D" deck specials: 5 cards, 63%

    So, hope all of this helps.

  46. #46

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    I like using triple decks. Lots of possible swing for special damage...or not. It does tend to find memore often than my opponents.

  47. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGuy59 View Post
    Hmm...

    Can anyone else see a WWI Damage Chit Graphic project in this idea?

    Round or square? Make the design use able for either?
    I could design the images to be trimmed square, or round, and I'm thinking of making the images fit these:

    [OK, the tablet won't load the image. Try going here: Amazon.com - Avery Assorted Split Tags]
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  48. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGuy59 View Post
    I could design the images to be trimmed square, or round, and I'm thinking of making the images fit these:

    [OK, the tablet won't load the image. Try going here: Amazon.com - Avery Assorted Split Tags]
    That is a cool idea.

  49. #49

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    What about:

    http://www.superiorpod.com/product/1...s#.VMxOIsnnTTI
    Or get www.printplaygames.com to carry it on their site for us to purchase? You upload the format to them and they will print them?

  50. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gotham Resident View Post
    What about:

    http://www.superiorpod.com/product/1...s#.VMxOIsnnTTI
    Or get www.printplaygames.com to carry it on their site for us to purchase? You upload the format to them and they will print them?
    As posted on another thread, how about these:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	BACK (Cardstock) 1 inch circles (44)A-Deck.jpg 
Views:	79 
Size:	151.1 KB 
ID:	158106
    On Print & Play Games 1" circle template
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

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