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Thread: General overview of released minis - WWII

  1. #101

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    Monse told me about another interesting thing about A-24 and I edited it. Thank you for your enthusiasm!

    Quote Originally Posted by monse
    French A24 were involved on bombing raids on French cities/harbors on the West Coast and also in south of France (on August 1944 took place the Provence landing on French south coast, between Marseille and Nice)
    So, they should not appear in the Italy campaign 1943-1945 but rather in a France Landing 1944 that could include "Normandy Invasion".

  2. #102

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    Messerschmitt Bf.109 K–4 - S, CCD/CC, 18, 2, 14
    •Germany - 1./JG77
    •Germany - 9./JG3
    •Germany - Erich Hartmann
    Hmmm... Climb rate of 2 on the 109...
    Ok, If the rule book prints that climb rate, I will play it...
    I will just have to pretend the Germans began watering down their aircraft fuel in an attempt to make it last...

  3. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by THECCRICH View Post
    Hmmm... Climb rate of 2 on the 109...
    Ok, If the rule book prints that climb rate, I will play it...
    I will just have to pretend the Germans began watering down their aircraft fuel in an attempt to make it last...
    Climb rate of 18 m/s with the good fuel does equate to WGS climb rate 2, matching that of similar performing aircraft already released by Ares. A climb of 14.1 m/s with the standard fuel would be climb rate 3. From what I was able to glean when doing the initial assessment for the WGS unofficial aircraft project an aircraft would need a climb rate of 20 m/s + to warrant climb rate 1 (think Me 262).

  4. #104

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    20 m/s + to warrant climb rate 1 (think Me 262).
    First things first:
    Carl you are awesome by the way
    I love how you like to talk about stats...

    Secondly,
    That is the problem I am having with this...
    I have to consider that my climb rate data could be wrong; but, this is what I have...
    4,820 feet per minute (109k4 climb in feet per minute)
    4820 * .3048 = 1469.136 (meters per minute)
    1469.136 / 60 = 24.49 (meters per second)

    Mark 9 spit by comparison:
    3,950 feet per minute (Spitfire Mark IX climb in feet per minute)
    3950 * .3048 = 1203.96 (meters per minute)
    1203.96 / 60 = 20.066 (meters per second)

    Even if these rates are exaggerated, the 109K out climbs the Mark IX by 4.43 meters per second.

    The reason I am so adamant about the 109K climb rate, is expressed in this question:

    Why would the Germans design such a small aircraft with such a large engine if not for pure intercept capability?
    Granted as resources ran thin for Germany, they attempted to salvage the 109's airframe, but even so, the 109s only true advantage was speed, climb and relative maneuverability.

    I can't guarantee that I'm 100% correct about any of this, but when comparing fuel consumption, speed and climb data, the 109K was the top prop for climb during WWII.

    My same source ( http://www.ww2warbirds.net ) has the Me 262 at 3,937 ft per min which is even less than the 109K.

    I will stop fussing about all of this and agree to climb rate 2 (which I believe strips the 109K of a distinct advantaged over the Mark IX) but will secretly play the climb rate 1 on my solo ventures...

    Thank you for listening to my rant LOL...

    Chris

    (p.s. Carl if I didn't mention it, you are awesome sir... Thanks for the conversation... Super fun...)
    Last edited by THECCRICH; 07-28-2016 at 19:31.

  5. #105

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    Quote Originally Posted by THECCRICH View Post
    First things first:
    Carl you are awesome by the way
    I love how you like to talk about stats...

    Secondly,
    That is the problem I am having with this...
    I have to consider that my climb rate data could be wrong; but, this is what I have...
    4,820 feet per minute (109k4 climb in feet per minute)
    4820 * .3048 = 1469.136 (meters per minute)
    1469.136 / 60 = 24.49 (meters per second)

    Mark 9 spit by comparison:
    3,950 feet per minute (Spitfire Mark IX climb in feet per minute)
    3950 * .3048 = 1203.96 (meters per minute)
    1203.96 / 60 = 20.066 (meters per second)

    Even if these rates are exaggerated, the 109K out climbs the Mark IX by 4.43 meters per second.

    The reason I am so adamant about the 109K climb rate, is expressed in this question:

    Why would the Germans design such a small aircraft with such a large engine if not for pure intercept capability?
    Granted as resources ran thin for Germany, they attempted to salvage the 109's airframe, but even so, the 109s only true advantage was speed, climb and relative maneuverability.

    I can't guarantee that I'm 100% correct about any of this, but when comparing fuel consumption, speed and climb data, the 109K was the top prop for climb during WWII.

    My same source has the Me 262 at 3,937 ft per min which is even less than the 109K.

    I will stop fussing about all of this and agree to climb rate 2 (which I believe strips the 109K of a distinct advantaged over the Mark IX) but will secretly play the climb rate 1 on my solo ventures...

    Thank you for listening to my rant LOL...

    Chris
    Do not apologise Chris, discussion on these topics is very beneficial, I love learning new things!

    Discrepancies about aircraft performance often arise due to different sources nominating sometimes wildly varying statistics. These variances can be attributed to engine serviceability, fuel quality, pilot ability, and sometimes even straight up fraud on the part of the publishing authorities.

    Where possible I try to go to a primary source or as close as I can get. http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org is usually my first port of call for the 109 and other aircraft covered by that website.

    When I get home tonight I will have another look at the recorded stats for the 109K and revisit my interpretation.

  6. #106

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    I would like to bring another perspective - a gamer's one
    Personaly, I can't imagine how difficult would be playing mini with climb rate 1. During our gaming sessions I use climbing and diving with an Immelman and Split-S maneuvres. I've never played with climb rate 1, but think that would be annoying to climb or five whole altitude level during these manevres.
    Of course, this is not related to reality, just to game aspect.

  7. #107

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan-Sam View Post
    I would like to bring another perspective - a gamer's one
    Personaly, I can't imagine how difficult would be playing mini with climb rate 1. During our gaming sessions I use climbing and diving with an Immelman and Split-S maneuvres. I've never played with climb rate 1, but think that would be annoying to climb or five whole altitude level during these manevres.
    Of course, this is not related to reality, just to game aspect.
    The other way you could reflect an aircraft with an excellent climb rate would be to give the type two climb cards in the pack and make only one a 'steep' card. That would mean the WGS Messerschmitt Bf-109K for instance could gain a level every two cards instead of every three.

  8. #108

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    It's very hard to discuss the climb rates because they are terribly simplified in WoG.
    To put it simply, the 109K couldn't climb as fast as he dived.

  9. #109

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl_Brisgamer View Post
    The other way you could reflect an aircraft with an excellent climb rate would be to give the type two climb cards in the pack and make only one a 'steep' card. That would mean the WGS Messerschmitt Bf-109K for instance could gain a level every two cards instead of every three.
    A very clever solution - I like it a lot!

  10. #110

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    I updated WGF overview few days ago, so now it is time for WGS.

    I added Starter Set BoB and Squadron Packs BoB, so they should be in.
    I also added now minis into historical overview in post #2.

  11. #111

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    does any one know when the official ju88's, do217's and Blenheim's are coming out

  12. #112

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    Quote Originally Posted by the black devil View Post
    does any one know when the official ju88's, do217's and Blenheim's are coming out
    I believe they are supposed to be released in Q3 2019. If we get them by Christmas I'll be pleasantly surprised and ecstatically happy.

  13. #113

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    A while back in WGF the Siemens Shuckert D.IV had a climb rate of 1 but Ares downgraded it to 2 for game-play considerations.

  14. #114

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl_Brisgamer View Post
    I believe they are supposed to be released in Q3 2019. If we get them by Christmas I'll be pleasantly surprised and ecstatically happy.
    Ah! Another Christmas pressie for Rob then Carl. You may well be nearer the mark with your estimate. Do the Chinese have another new Year in the Summer?
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  15. #115

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    Chinese New Year was a few weeks ago and that's it. Good to hear about the Ju 88 and Do. I have a number of AIM Blenheims so have to see what they look like.

  16. #116

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    Is there any recent news about the WW2 bomber release?

  17. #117

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    My appologie to all who follow this thread - after 7 years all post reserves are full and I need to start a new thread. Later, when everything will be better, I'll ask about sticking it to the wall.

  18. #118

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    Thank you for your good research

    It is probably necessary today to add the new figurines 2019 ? :
    Dornier Do.17 Z-1 / Z-1 Junkers Ju.88 A-1/ A-4

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan-Sam View Post
    A brief overview of the historical realities for those who insist on historical credibility.

    Mediterranean theater
    (both Spitfires are hypothetical - there are Vc (trop) Spitfires mostly on Malta)
    • Spitfire Mk.II - J. Falkowski (BoB camouflage)
    • Spitfire Mk.II - T. Vybiral (late war camouflage)
    • Spitfire Mk.IX trop - Stanisław Skalski (desert camouflage)
    • Hawker Hurricane Mk.I - D. Bader (BoB camouflage, Mk.I was outdated)
    • Grummann F4F-3 Martlet III - A. Black
    • Curtiss P-40F Warhawk - J. Gisclon (Free France)
    • Curtiss P-40F Warhawk - W. Lott (American)
    • Douglas SBD–5 Dauntless - Christian C. Lee (Pacific camouflage)
    • Douglas SBD–5 Dauntless - JG Kirkendahl
    • Gloster Gladiator Mk.I - M. Pattle
    • Gloster Sea Gladiator - G. Burges
    • Bristol Beaufighter Mk.IF - M. J. Herrick
    • Bristol Beaufighter Mk.VIF - P. Y. Davoud
    • Mitchell B-25C - G. Bauer (American)
    • Messerschmitt Bf 109 E-4 - A. Galland (European 41'-44' camouflage)
    • Messerschmitt Bf 110 C-4 - F. Schupp
    • Messerschmitt Bf 110 C-4 - G. Radusch (night camouflage)
    • Messerschmitt Bf 110 C-7 - G. Christl (desert camouflage)
    • Junkers Ju.87B-2 Stuka - StG 77
    • Junkers Ju.87B-2 Stuka - IV./LG 1
    • Junkers Ju.87B-2 Stuka - 1./StG.3 (desert camouflage)
    • Junkers Ju.87R-2 Stuka - G. Sugaroni (Italian)
    • Heinkel He.111 H-3 - Stab./KG53
    • Dewoitine D.520 - P. Le Gloan (Vichy French)
    • Dewoitine D.520 - V. Stella (Italian)
    • Fiat CR.42 Falco - L. Gorrini (Italian)
    • Fiat CR.42 Falco - V. Rinaldi (Italian)
    • Reggiane R.2001 Falco II - R. Vaccari (Italian)
    • Reggiane R.2001 Falco II - G. Metellini (Italian)

    For the Mediterranean theater with the French Dewoitine D.520 , you can include them also early 1943 randomly on a game table but on the Allied side this time ! after the Anglo/ Americans landings in North Africa , alongside the Wildcat and other Seafire etc , they will then be quickly relegated to the training of pilots but you will find at the beginning trace of the few missions of these which had the merit of existing within Mediterranean Allied Coastal Air Force https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medite...ied_Air_Forces

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    D.520 US Casablanca Nov 1942 (c) Source : Aérojournal le Dewoitine D.520

    Sources texts and photos :
    - http://www.cieldegloire.com/gc_1_04.php
    - Aérojournal
    - Docavia book "le Dewoitine D.520"

  19. #119

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    Daniel, would it be possible to add Dornier Do.17 Z-1 / Z-10, Junkers Ju.88 A-1 / A-4 to the second message of the thread according to the various front list.

    In addition to the Spanish War from 1936 to 1939, the DORNIER 17 Z was engaged from 1939 to the end of 1941 during the campaigns in Poland, Norway, France (1940) and the Balkans (1941), during the Battle of Britain (1940) and the Blitz on Britain (1941), as well as the first months of the Russian campaign (from June to October 1941) with a still-equipped squadron.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operat..._Dornier_Do_17

    DORNIER DO.17 Z-10 night fighter version : less than twenty Do 17 Z-7s (modified from Z version with glass front) and Z-10s were built.
    Despite this limited number, they were used from June 1940 to October 1941 against British bombers (Blenheim, Wellington, Hampden, Hudson).
    Some interesting ideas for scenarios involving :
    - several Blenheims (September 9, 1940)
    - four Do.17 Z-10 against several Spitfires + Hurricanes (February 11, 1941)
    - a Beaufighter (May 8, 1941)
    https://ospreypublishing.com/blog/Th...Dornier_Do_17/

    The JUNKERS 88 can be combined with almost all British, French, Russian, (American from late 1942), German and Italian aircraft figures.
    It is used from 1939 in Poland and until 1945 in more recent versions.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junkers_Ju_88

    And according to Bruno’s previous article, the DEWOITINE D.520 could be also listed in the Mediterranean front list on the allied side (Thollon model, despite french marking instead of American).

  20. #120

  21. #121

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    Good check Daniel
    As example he had more Dewoitine D 520 of the GC I / 4 Navarre Fighter Group which flew with the Allies from January to July 1943 than with the Groupe de chasse Doret future GC I / 18 Fighter Group in 1944 (D.520 Wings of War Thollon)


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    For additional information look on this website : http://bibert.fr (in French and in English) which references all the known documentation of the dewoitine D.520 :


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    (C) Card Wings of War D.520 Thollon : http://merlindex.free.fr

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