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Thread: Review: Litko Flying Stands

  1. #1

    Thumbs up Review: Litko Flying Stands

    My Litko WoW flight bases, flight pegs, flight peg toppers and altitude dials showed up the other day. The packaging was nice and they were well protected during shipping.

    Flight Bases for Wings of War



    The quality of the flight bases is good and are the correct size. I do find the center line, arrow and firing arch lines a little hard to see. Litko does suggest using a crayon to fill in the etched lines to improve visibility. I'll try this and report back. They are heavier then the WoW bases, so they should be more stable at the higher peg heights (up to 6").

    3" Flight Peg



    I have to say I was not very happy with the flight pegs at first inspection. I felt these really could have been made a lot thicker. After comparing them to the WoW pegs, they are quite a bit thicker if you actually compare the small part of the WoW peg (the part that has always broken off in our gaming group). While the Litko pegs look thin and fragile, surprisingly they are any thing but. Just like the WoW peg and base combo, the Litko pegs need to be paired with the best fitting base. If you don't do this, the peg will wobble quite a bit. I will say, most of them were a good fit first try. I still feel these pegs could be a lot thicker. Being a single piece is a big improvement over the WoW pegs in terms of not coming apart.

    One draw back to the Litko base and peg combo, they do not really come back apart easily after you have paired them together. I was not able to pull nearly 50% of mine back apart due to fear of braking a peg. This means they will take up more room in your storage system (and you can not swap out peg heights).


    Flight Peg Toppers for Wings of War



    These little pieces work quite well. They are tight on both the flight peg and the WoW miniatures. You will have to do a little pairing with these as well.

    6 Count Dials and Pointers



    These little jewels hold the key for my simplified altitude rules I've been working on. Both the dial and pointer slide over the flight peg nicely. I was a little concerned that the pointer would slide around to much while moving the planes around. While I have not had a chance to play a full game with them, just moving the plane around a few times did not cause them to lose count. I tried the little black pointers with and with out the brown backing paper on them to see if it made a difference on how well the dial stayed in place. While it's not a big difference, I think leaving the backing paper on is slightly better.

    I placed a very tiny amount of white (PVA) glue in one spot between the flight base and peg and then slid the dial down on to the peg. I centered the "1" in the middle of the firing arch. This should keep the dial rotating around the peg. This will make it super ease to tell at a glance what altitude a plane is at as it will standardize where each number goes from player to player.

    These are highly recommended for anyone tracking altitude during games.

    Over all, I'm very pleased with the Litko products. They have a nice look and finish to them and they work well.

    WoW base and Litko stands

    Another option I tried was to carefully drill out the hole in the WoW base to accept the Litko peg. I have a drill bit set with 135 bits in it and I still did not have the perfect size for the Litko pegs. I was able to drill it out using a .1200 sized bit. This was a little to small and the peg was very hard to get in to it. My next bit size up was a .1285 and it was to large and the peg just wobbled around. I think that a .1250 bit would be the perfect size. I'll try and find one to test out and report back with my findings.

    There are two big advantages to going this route. The first is that you do not need to buy the Litko bases, so you save quite a bit of money. The other is that all of the planes data is printed on the WoW base for easy reference and the lines are much easier to read.

    The draw backs are that it takes time and a steady hand to drill out all the holes on the WoW bases. If you drill it out to large, you will have to carefully fill it with super glue and re-drill it.

    Another plus for the full Litko system is that the base is much heavier, so it feels much more stable.

    One thing I wish Litko would do is to offer a verity pack of flight pegs. I would love to be able to order a pack that contained two each of the 2, 3, 4, and 6 inch pegs. Even using the altitude dials, I still like having my actual miniatures at different heights. It makes it so much easier to move them around the table when they are very close to another plane.

  2. #2

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    I like the actual different heights too, I think that game Areodrome, or something like that, had bases with telescoping antenna like deals.

    The WoW pegs aren't bad though. I've not had enough cause yet to look for an alternative altitude system myself.

  3. #3

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    I bought some of these bases about 9 months ago, only gripe was having to fill the holes in the middle and then redrilling a bit smaller so the WoW pegs fit, this took 5 minutes to fill with superglue and 5 minutes to drill a few hours later. Funny thing is since buying them I have never really used them, I now have so many original Nexus bases I use them instead, the preference being is that the Nexus bases are hollowed underneath and seem to be more stable over uneven surfaces whereas the Likto ones are just cut out of sheet perspex and have a flat base. Though they are heavier I tend to disagree with Kaufy here I think they are less stable than the WoW stands because they are not hollowed out underneath, and planes can often sit at angles because of what is under the bases on the tabletop ( I some times play with some scenery items ). I also don't like the look of the Likto bases I think they look a bit plane and cheap compared to the Nexus ones, but thats just an individual taste thing I guess.

  4. #4

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    I like the actual different heights too, I think that game Areodrome, or something like that, had bases with telescoping antenna like deals.

    The WoW pegs aren't bad though. I've not had enough cause yet to look for an alternative altitude system myself.
    I've played a few aerial combat games that use the telescoping antenna. While they are fun and make changing the actual height of the plane easy, they are kind of ugly looking out on the table. The reason I started looking for an alternative peg system is that I don't like everyone having to pick there plane to put a new peg in or remove one when changing altitude. There is already to much card wiggling no matter how careful you are.


    I bought some of these bases about 9 months ago, only gripe was having to fill the holes in the middle and then redrilling a bit smaller so the WoW pegs fit, this took 5 minutes to fill with superglue and 5 minutes to drill a few hours later. Funny thing is since buying them I have never really used them, I now have so many original Nexus bases I use them instead, the preference being is that the Nexus bases are hollowed underneath and seem to be more stable over uneven surfaces whereas the Likto ones are just cut out of sheet perspex and have a flat base. Though they are heavier I tend to disagree with Kaufy here I think they are less stable than the WoW stands because they are not hollowed out underneath, and planes can often sit at angles because of what is under the bases on the tabletop ( I some times play with some scenery items ). I also don't like the look of the Likto bases I think they look a bit plane and cheap compared to the Nexus ones, but thats just an individual taste thing I guess.
    So, you were only trying to replace some missing WoW bases then? Why did you not just use the Litko pegs and toppers that work with the WoW planes?

    I can see how these bases might not work so well with 3D terrain and such. We always play with 2D terrain and targets for this very reason. While 3D does look better, it just interrupts the game I think.

    I'm sure the looks of the Litko bases will be a personal one for every body. I'll try and get some good picks of them in the next day or so for everyone to see them in action.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Col. Hajj View Post
    I've played a few aerial combat games that use the telescoping antenna. While they are fun...they are kind of ugly looking out on the table. The reason I started looking for an alternative peg system is that I don't like everyone having to pick there plane to put a new peg in or remove one when changing altitude. There is already to much card wiggling no matter how careful you are.
    Can I have an AMEN!

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Col. Hajj View Post
    We always play with 2D terrain... While 3D does look better, it just interrupts the game I think.
    AMEN again...Don't get me wrong 3D terrain looks great but I like to focus on the planes and all that extra stuff on the table overwhelms the planes. Besides you constantly have to move stuff out of the way. My players hate changing to the silhoette cards for overlaps let alone moving trees, buildings, etc. around.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie3 View Post
    My players hate changing to the silhoette cards for overlaps let alone moving trees, buildings, etc. around.
    We only brake out the plane's card if it was shot down and someone thinks they might try and rescue the pilot. If two planes are going to overlap during movement, we just leave one of the planes where they are and keep the maneuver card that they should have played next to it. In the next round, we let the first plane "fly out of the way" and then have the plane that held it's maneuver preform both of it's maneuvers in this round. It works out well and is pretty easy to determine if there was any shooting based on where the plane "should have been" (we actually do not do any shooting into or out of bases that overlap for this reason (there are exceptions to this rule of course))

  8. #8

    Default Use of model terrain has its place even in this game

    Quote Originally Posted by Col. Hajj View Post
    So, you were only trying to replace some missing WoW bases then? Why did you not just use the Litko pegs and toppers that work with the WoW planes?
    You know, you really shouldn't jump to conclusions!

    No I didn't buy them to replace lost or broken bases, I bought them to mount my 1/144 WWII DoW collection. I bought them without looking at the pictures of them closely enough and without thinking their use through properly and how I like to play the game. I guess you could say I bought them on a whim and out of a blatant error of judgement. I did though think through the need for posts and toppers beforehand and I decided against them because the simple conversion of the bases to suit Nexus posts would be just that.... very simple. One thing though I converted the bases before I removed the paper backing. I wasn't sure how the superglue filler would react as it can put a smokey smear on canopies, I didn't want that happening to my Litko bases, I didn't have any problems with drill sizes either

    Why I personally dont need them?
    Since I bought the Litko bases WoW Series 2 and 3 have released and then I discovered Doms Decals so I have also since purchased 6 extras of Camels, Snipes, DVII's, Aldatross DIII's, Nieuports and 6 F-Toys SPADs which make up my repaint squadrons. I think I have more than enough bases at my disposal without the requirement of Litkos products, but thats me!

    The Litko bases are good if you desperately have a need either for replacement bases due to breakage/loss or if you have other manufacturers models and you need bases and posts etc to mount them so you can play this game. But they are different and like the differences in which we play our games, our need or use for them will be different so purchasers should think through how they play and why they need them first before being like me, dissapointed. Ideally it would be better if Nexus produced a generic pack of bases and posts, but that probably won't happen if not for a long while anyway. Other products Likto make are probably more useful and maybe could be considered are items like the counter dials as altitude markers etc but are they really worth the extra cost? (my opinion) All the same you probably could just make these components easily yourself out of cardboard or plasticard and simple sticker on the base. Interesting to read that you had so much trouble with tight fitting of rods in the holes, not a very interchangeable system by the looks of it

    Quote Originally Posted by Col. Hajj View Post
    I can see how these bases might not work so well with 3D terrain and such. We always play with 2D terrain and targets for this very reason. While 3D does look better, it just interrupts the game I think.
    The terrain models I use are low relief metal castings and not scaled, 1/144 or larger than life model buildings, trees and "whatnot" that would look great on a 15mm battlefield that you are imagining. The model terrain I use is some old 2mm scale stuff that I bought 25 years ago at a swap meet I think they were made by an English company called Irregular Miniatures. This terrain is only about 1/8 inch high (3-4mm) at the most, its very low relief and we use it for targets and AA etc it looks around about 1/1000 scale. The only downside for this terrain is each base is irregular in shape and dimensions vary and its not always as easy a target area to hit as a Nexus card. The original casting quaility is also quite awfull but a carefull paint job still makes them look much better than the supplied cards. I have got towns, roads and river sections one with a bridge, tent camps, industrial buildings, warehouses, little forts and so on. The models never interupt the game as the Nexus Bases just sit over the top, even whilst straddled. Also on the upside they are made from white metal so they don't move around as easily as cards tend to do for all sorts of reasons.

    Funny enough I thought back at the time of purchase that the Irregular models were a mistake and looked pretty woeful but they were very, very cheap so they didn't get much use except use except for some of them when playing Edition 1 Mighty Empires Campaigns as markers. They haven't seen the light of day until recently, now their use is actually perfectly suited to Wings of War as target markers. I like their use and the idea of them so much so that I am in the process of sculpting some more of my own to a higher standard but the difference being that these 3D models are similar to the artwork of that on the Nexus cards and more suited to a WW1 theme, I have some old Triang/Hornby 1/1200 Minic Ship and Airfix stuff that I will get out and use for WW2. At time of writing this post I have completed sculpting 3 out of the first 6

    As for the use of larger scaled terrain models like those made for 15mm scale I can see the issues using them and then at the same time I can also see a place for them as well. I remember reading a post on an earlier version of the Wings of War forum and the writer was suggesting a scenario where planes flew at deck level so all the trees were taller and the planes had to fly around them, any player miscalculating and flying into a terrain feature had a choice of risking clipping it and crashing or pulling out which meant they were out of the game (as good as crashed) anyway, could be fun to try
    Last edited by Roger Wilco; 09-08-2009 at 22:24. Reason: Spelled Litko as Likto

  9. #9

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    As promised, here are the photos comparing the normal Wings of War bases with the Litko base....

    WoW base drilled to fit a Litko flight peg.





    WoW base drilled to fit Litko flight peg with 6 count altitude dial.





    Litko base and peg, with and with out 6 count dial.





    Side by side of WoW base and Litko base both with Litko peg and 6 count dial.



    Side by side of WoW base/peg (modified to use magnets) and WoW base with Litko peg.



    I personally like the WoW base with the Litko peg. It is much cleaner looking and it does not fall apart when you pick it up to move it. It is a little more work drilling out the WoW bases to fit the Litko pegs though. I first used a 7/16 drill bit followed by a 1/8 drill bit. I did not drill all the way through the base, but stopped were the original whole in the WoW base stopped. If you drill slow enough, it's easy to "feel" where that is at.

    I've already ordered more Litko flight pegs and 6 count dials for my planes!

  10. #10

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    After looking at these pictures, I'm going to have to get some Litko pegs now.

  11. #11

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    Oh, the dial thingie is really clever! Is there a 10 or 12 count dial?

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by nachinus View Post
    Oh, the dial thingie is really clever! Is there a 10 or 12 count dial?
    Litko produces a 6, 10 and a 12 count dial.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeppelin View Post
    After looking at these pictures, I'm going to have to get some Litko pegs now.
    Yep, the pegs clean the look up quite a bit.

    Quote Originally Posted by nachinus View Post
    Oh, the dial thingie is really clever! Is there a 10 or 12 count dial?
    The dials are very nice, I highly recommend those!

  14. #14

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    And they are not very expensive... the problem probably is the delivery costs for sending them across the Atlantic!

    Anybody in Europe has ever ordered anything from those guys? Do you know the delivery costs? Or a european distributor of these products?

    EDIT: Nevermind. I figured out a way to show the shipping rates in their webpage without having to register.

    ... I'm definitely getting those dials!
    Last edited by nachinus; 09-16-2009 at 09:37.

  15. #15

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    The dials require the Litko pegs right?
    I'm thinking of getting 10 of each just for those dials, it would make playing with altitude rules so much smoother.

  16. #16

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    Yes, you have to have the pegs for the dials to work. I'll be posting my simplified altitude rules later tonight that use these same dials.

  17. #17

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    I bought the 2" pegs from LItko to use with the dials, and keep the dials on the players airplane cards where we put the counters and maneuver cards. Only suggestion I have is, paint the bottom of the dials black, so the numbers can be more easily seen.

  18. #18

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    Brian, keeping the dials off to the side sounds like it would be easier for the player to change it, but harder for others to look and see what altitude he is at.

    Did you paint the whole bottom black, or just fill in the numbers with a crayon like they suggest?

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Col. Hajj View Post
    Brian, keeping the dials off to the side sounds like it would be easier for the player to change it, but harder for others to look and see what altitude he is at.
    You are correct here. It does make it easier for the players to manage the dial, but the opposing players do have to ask what altitude the planes are at.

    Quote Originally Posted by Col. Hajj View Post
    Did you paint the whole bottom black, or just fill in the numbers with a crayon like they suggest?
    I've painted the whole underside, of the bottom. But with the dial also being Black, I'm very close to changing the color from black to color which has a greater contrast with the white letters and black dial.

    Perhpas I'll just paint the last 1/4 of the pointer on the dial, a bright color. I'll try a few different things this weekend, and post the results.
    Last edited by usmc1855; 09-17-2009 at 04:46.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Col. Hajj View Post
    Yes, you have to have the pegs for the dials to work.
    Oh, I thought they would fit the original pegs. Well, buying a few extra pegs won't hurt anyway.

  21. #21

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    Unfortunately, they do not fit the regular WoW pegs. You will also have to drill out the hole in your WoW bases to except the new pegs. This is very easy with a 1/8 (3.175mm) bit (I pre-drilled mine with a 7/16(2.7781mm) bit first).

  22. #22

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    Ok, thanks for your help!

  23. #23

    Default Altitude Marker

    Here is a picture of what I've done to make the altitude dials/markers from Litko, work for me.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Altitude Marker1.jpg  

  24. #24

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    Any European got this? Just to gt an idea about the shipping costs and time.

  25. #25

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    Their site will calculate the shipping for you before you have to sign in or buy.

    There red looks alright. I wonder how a gray would look. I still think I like them on the planes better though.

  26. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Col. Hajj View Post
    I still think I like them on the planes better though.
    I tend to agree as the players don't need to keep track of who is playing which plane to SEE where the plane actually is in relation to their own plane.

  27. #27

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    I think I must be a bit "old School" with my ideas, but i still kinda like to see the aircraft at different heights during the game. I prefire not having to sneek-a-peek at my mates flying base to see what height he is flying at or even worse, charging in for some close range shooting, only to find he is 2 levels of altertude different to me because I've not checked his base dial!!

    So for me, even though the Litke bases and fixed pegs do look really good, I'm going to stick with the WOW individual altertude pegs.

  28. #28

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    Aaron, you can adjust the actual height with the Litko pegs, from as low as .75" up to 6". What I like about the dial is:

    1. I don't have to try and count the little pegs.
    2. I don't have to pick my plane up off the table each time I change altitudes. There is already enough "card moving" in this game as it is.

    What my group does is place each plane on a different height Litko peg. This give the illusion of the planes being at different heights in the game. In game terms, it means nothing, but it does add that nice visual appeal.

  29. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Col. Hajj View Post
    What my group does is place each plane on a different height Litko peg. This give the illusion of the planes being at different heights in the game. In game terms, it means nothing, but it does add that nice visual appeal.
    I can see what you mean mate, but i like the idea of being able to just have that "god like view" over the battle feild and being able to have a visualy accurate battle picture to formulate my next movements from.

    However, if you've ever whitnessed one of my games, you would suspect me of never having a battle plan apart from confusing the enemy with random and sparadic manouvers!!!

    At the end of the day, I guess is down to how your used to playing the game. I've no doubt that if I did try the Litko altermetres I'd think they were great after getting used to them.

  30. #30

    Thumbs up litko bases

    Litko makes a great product flight stand elevation marker set AFS019-5. This
    gives you an easy way to indicate altitude. I use 144 scale planes and have been using this system for 18 months. I use the two inch pegs and you can put two of these risers one. In the past they had a great item in Jim`s Product Lab
    it was this riser plus damage , smoke and fire damage tokens. This was a limited time item and. I see they now list several mew items. This item AFS032
    is the same one i describe above. Go to www.litkoaero.com This item was not listed last week so they are listening to us.

  31. #31

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    They have had that one out for a while. I looked at it and decided it was still harder to count up which slot that cloud thingy was in then it was to just look at the number that the dial is pointing to.

  32. #32

    Thumbs up litko bases

    In my case i can see the cloud marker easier than reading the dial. Whatever
    system you use the Litko system is the way to go. I have made five orders with them over the last year.

  33. #33

    Thumbs up You deserve a prize Carl!

    That is great idea Carl , they look great! Another great example of using the LITKO flight stands and to their glory! What did you mark the laser lines with?

  34. #34

    Default Low Tech Solutions

    Quote Originally Posted by richard m schwab View Post
    That is great idea Carl , they look great! Another great example of using the LITKO flight stands and to their glory! What did you mark the laser lines with?
    Thanks Richard.

    I used a very low tech solution to mark the arcs and arrows - a black crayon from my six year old daughter's pencil case!

    I produced these because I often 'loan' aircraft to other players, including debutantes. This way they have all the info. on the stand just like the real WoW bases.

    Cheers,

    Carl.

  35. #35

    Thumbs up Crayons!

    That is what i did, but yours look better. I thought of a variation on your theme
    window cling material. If you have six year old you must know about window clings.
    It you could print the data on that material you could peel and stick on the base. Then remove it store it and apply a different planes information, when needed.
    did you see the shots of my planes in this heading. WWII: 1/144 model vs cards reffrence?

  36. #36

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    i like the altitude counters on the base , original game pegs seem to loosen up to much after extensive use. great idea. allen

  37. #37

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    I can't wait to show you guys what I have in the works!

  38. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Col. Hajj View Post
    I can't wait to show you guys what I have in the works!
    Colonel, now you are just teasing!

  39. #39

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    Those altitude dials are incredible. I almost wonder if they could put a little bump on the bottom and have a series of small lines on a base piece you also glue on so that it'd have ridges which would catch the bump to keep it from freely spinning.

  40. #40

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    Ok.....these look great and seem like a boon to game play
    Where can I get these Litko pegs, dials and pointers at?

  41. #41

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    The top post had the links, but here they are compiled:

    * Bases - http://www.litkoaero.com/page/LAI/PROD/AFSWOW/AFS022-10
    * 3" Pegs - http://www.litkoaero.com/page/LAI/PROD/AFS/AFS011-10
    * 6 Count Dials & Pointers - http://www.litkoaero.com/page/LAI/PROD/AFS/AFS025-10
    * Flight Peg Toppers - http://www.litkoaero.com/page/LAI/PROD/AFS/AFS027-10

    Litko has these at incredibly reasonable prices! Hope that helps ya find em.

  42. #42

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    Those look awesome. Great idea with the hobby knife and crayon! I would have never thought of that.

  43. #43

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    Ok I ordered this stuff from Litko......thanks!

    I found some really old metal miniatures from another Italian company
    They are 1/144th they had a whole range of WW1 a/c they are alas OOB.

    I found a Pfalz D.XII, an SVA 5 Ansoldo and a Hanriot.

    Shouldn't be too hard to concoct a manuver profile and gun damage info.

  44. #44

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    With a growing fleet of non-official aircraft I also order a set of 10 Litko bases. As I did not order the WOW adapter and I did not like to modify my airplane to fit there stands, I modified the base. If just drilled the hole in the base bigger so that a peg nearly fits trough. Then I've cut of the insert part of the peg. Added some glue to the bottom part of the peg and squeezed it into the hole. You have to sacrifice one peg though...

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  45. #45

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    That is similar to how the Aerodrome Accessories bases work, but the peg slips in through the bottom of the base and the taper on the peg keeps it from coming out. You still have to sacrifice one peg, but it can be pushed back out of the base to be used again some where else if needed (like in a two seater base).

    Click image for larger version. 

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  46. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by aarondpjames View Post
    I think I must be a bit "old School" with my ideas, but i still kinda like to see the aircraft at different heights during the game. I prefire not having to sneek-a-peek at my mates flying base to see what height he is flying at or even worse, charging in for some close range shooting, only to find he is 2 levels of altertude different to me because I've not checked his base dial!!

    So for me, even though the Litke bases and fixed pegs do look really good, I'm going to stick with the WOW individual altertude pegs.
    My thoughts exactly.

  47. #47

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    Just wanted to let you guys know that Litko does make dials for the original Wings of War pegs:

    http://www.litko.net/products/WoW-Elevation-Dials.html

  48. #48

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    Thanks for the heads up Rob.

  49. #49

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    Has anyone tried the Litko flame and smoke markers ? I'd be curious to know what you think of them.

  50. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Willi Von Klugermann View Post
    Has anyone tried the Litko flame and smoke markers ? I'd be curious to know what you think of them.
    They look too toy-like for my taste.

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