Balloon Photos

**Ritterton** · 09-03-2009 19:45

At the nudging of the Colonel, I put up a series of scans of RPPC (real picture postcard) images of WWI balloons used by both sides. I have to say that these things fascinate me. I have collected images of zeppelins and airships, but somehow completely overlooked the observation balloons of WWI until I got the Burning Drachens. Then it was ok if I can't get a model .... hmh...maybe some pictures.

It's now something I enjoy trying to find. I get a few off of Ebay, but usually loose out the auctions there. So, try to find them in postcard dealer drawers, etc.

Would love to hear more from folks interested in these. I am also really wondering if a scaled floating replica could be recreated like some of the R/C models of the period that are 1/8th, 1/6 or 1/4th scale. Could be a fun project....

But that is still in the pondering stage.

R

**Oberst Hajj** · 09-03-2009 22:46

You have uploaded some interesting photos. I think its interesting finding these old photographs. At one point, I started picking up WWII and Korean era comics and trade paper backs that covered air combat. It was always fun finding one in an out of the way place where you would never expect it.

I don't see why a scale R/C balloon could not be made. Not sure what you would do with it since they had no engines on them... unless you were talking about Zeppelins. lol

**Zeppelin** · 09-21-2009 07:49

Cool!! Thanks for pictures Ritterton. I think I could get into collecting WWI postcards.

**Roger Wilco** · 09-21-2009 14:33

Great photos Ritterton! Have you seen any pictures or photos of the support vehicals for observation balloons. I have seen pics of winch trucks, but what about the trucks that carried the hydrogen, was it just a flatbed truck that is filled with the type of gas cylinders that we have today or something different and was the balloon skin also just carried around in a standard truck or was it carried in something special.

**Ritterton** · 09-22-2009 17:12

Hey Roger Wilco

Good questions. I have some distant pictures of the wench truck - lost one I was bidding on on ebay too. There was a remarkable collection of photos from a German Observer that showed all of these small bottles - say welding tank size - being attached to a multinozzled hose to inflate a set of balloons. That lead me to believe that any size vehicle could be used...

Here is an enlargement of a part of a postcard and it shows the vehicle/wench. I will upload an image I was sent, so not sure about copyright issues and will make available for educational purposes only, that shows more of the ground crew.

Also, this is an amazing site: www.thevintageaviator.com - go to the Album II under 1914-1918 pictures and you will see a German balloon - click on that image and you will see more of the wench cart system in use.

Wish I knew more...I keep hoping that I will find more and more through the acquisition of pictures and such!

**Roger Wilco** · 09-23-2009 21:35

Thanks for the link to the pictures, when I now look at all those balloon rigging cables, I think I may have to back off on atleast 50% or i'tll be after christmas before I get my Armaments in Miniatures model on to the tabletop. Those pictures are so stunningly clear!

My wifes uncle is the president of the Bendigo Returned Servicesmans League and they have a fine military museum in the centre of town. About two years ago a familly was going through the attic so to speak and found hundreds of photos their grandfather took while on tour in France during WW1, they had no use for them and they donated them to the museum. The collection looked like they were taken by a proffessional photographer they were so good, the only thing was that very few had much in the way of full on military content, they were photos of the trip over and back, a stay in England and the countryside of France and Belgium. It was a great insight to what it was like living in the times. The military content showed damaged and destroyed buildings, soldiers on leave, supply areas and some warships and transports, there was one large photo that consisted of the entire Sergeants Mess of the battalion, the museum curator said that the photographer was the only Sergeant in the photo that made it home.
Last I heard the Australian War Memorial was demanding that the original photos and negatives were to be handed to them as they were deeming them to be a national treasure. I will have to go back and look at the copies on display as I'm sure there were balloons in a few of them.
RW

**Ritterton** · 09-23-2009 22:42

Hopefully, someone at the museum went to the effort of digitally scanning the negatives and the photos. Then sharing them in some fashion. Here is a great guide to anything you could imagine about creating such a digital museum...

http://content.lib.washington.edu/cm...resources.html

I think that if more museums shared these types of images, we would have an amazing insight to the life of a WWI soldier as they saw it.

jungclaus · 09-24-2009 07:31

At the National Museum of the United States Air Force, at Dayton, Ohio this weekend, September 25, 26 & 27, 2009 is the 7th biennial Dawn Patrol Rendezvous (since 1996) featuring full scale replicas and all scales of RC aircraft.
This year will be the first attempt to 'fly' an approximately 1/4 scale, observation balloon complete with parachuting 'crew'.
The balloon sleeve is 19' long, has a diameter of about 7', is made of ripstop nylon and will be filled with approximately 1250, helium filled, latex balloons of yellow, orange and red colors. The application of a creative imagination will quickly reveal the reason for those specific colors.

It is to be a tethered balloon and all controls will be by cords extending up the tethering line.
Because of the expense of helium and latex balloons there has been no 'test run' so the success of the project is a profound question. The 'first ascent' will be at the event.
If it works and is a success it will no doubt be on You Tube all over the world. If it is a complete dud it will no doubt be on You Tube all over the world.

Wish us well!
The Balloon Crew

**Ritterton** · 09-24-2009 08:00

Originally Posted by jungclaus

Wish us well!
The Balloon Crew

Best wishes to the Balloon Crew...I am envious. I would love to hear a bit more about the material selected, how made, etc. I have been wondering how a scaled fessel could be made and what materials could be used.

Really like the idea of the filled balloons to simulate it being shot down. Cannot wait to see the YOUTUBE videos.

Wow - best of luck and be sure to post more for us ok!

**Oberst Hajj** · 09-24-2009 08:24

This will be cool!

jungclaus · 09-24-2009 12:21

"I would love to hear a bit more about the material selected, how made, etc."

Be careful what you wish for.

This was the initial concept. The dimensions were formulated upon what we anticipated would be needed to fill it with helium and that cost. Our original thinking was about 1/4 scale which would put it at approximately 30 feet. The difference of helium required for 30' and 19' is astounding. We kept whittling it down until arriving at 19', anticipating that it would use only one tank of helium at that size. That remains to be seen.
Once the size was determined the search for the lightest, yet strongest possible material was on. We found a silver gray (perfect color) ripstop nylon at a great price in Idaho and bought 20 yards of it (on sale) which was 60" wide.

From that information we made the cutting pattern layout only to determine that we would need another 16 yards for the fins. (not on sale)

The designs were all done in Adobe Illustrator at 1" = 1'scale. When the fabric arrived we began to cut out the patterns by scaling up the drawings. My wife, Martha, then began to use her Christmas present of '07 (Singer sewing machine) with a passion - and a few well chosen words.
The center section is comprised of forward and rearward parts, the rear one tapered more than the front. Attached to these are the nose cone, the tail cone and three fins The observer's basket is a wicker basket bought at Hobby Lobby (the craft store, not the hobby store) and modified with a trap door in the bottom. The 'chutes' are also ripstop nylon (white) which are stored prototypically in inverted enlongated cones. I was unable to figure out how to have the GI Joe type figures climb over the edge of the basket to 'bail out', hence the trap door.
The filling of the balloon sleeve require some extended consideration and it was finally determined to leave the ventral seam open during the filling process and secure it by Velcro when filled to capacity. Support frames for the initial filling are made of wooden dowel rods, aluminum tubes and 2 x 4s.

The consideration for the amount of lift from 1200 plus latex balloons verses the weight of the balloon sleeve was a total unknown until a member of the team did some tests. He determined form weighing a penny on a postal scale that one balloon would lift a penny and a quarter section of a penny with pretty good authority. (2 pennies, no). Carrying out his calculations he determined that 120 balloons would lift 1 pound. We weighed the balloon sleeve components, basket and 'observers' and it came to 7 pound, 1 ounce so theoretically it should fly but there still are a lot of unknowns, wind not being the least of them.

Only Saturday will we know for sure. If you're in the Dayton area on September 26 come and check it out. It should be good for a laugh, if nothing else.

**Ritterton** · 09-24-2009 17:08

Awesome description. Truly, I can't wait to get home Saturday night - doing a trip to the big City of Seattle and back that day for a series of genealogy presentations - and seeing if there is a youtube link.

What a project. Wow. Again, I am thinking a bit smaller for a fessel - say 1/10th scale - 8'....but I have a host of other interests/projects ahead of me.

You all are commended for this...what a great undertaking.

A BIG FAN of THE BALLOON CREW!

R

jungclaus · 09-24-2009 17:15

I'll still be in Dayton Saturday so I won't be able to post it but somebody else probably will. It should be good for a chuckle if nothing else.

**Ritterton** · 09-26-2009 21:02

DANG jungclaus, I mean it's like 12.02 a.m. in your neck of the woods...arent you home with video uploads yet?? :-)

Can't wait to see how things went.

R

jungclaus · 09-28-2009 05:33

Well, it was a qualified success. I have video that Martha took but don't know exactly how to put it up on You Tube. I have made a DVD of the tape and will be giving it to a friend who may be able to 'get 'er done', hopefully soon. In the meantime there are probably dozens of other people who are putting up photos and perhaps videos of the 'ascent'. If you can find any shots or video on the internet before we get ours on please post the link.

Having never even attempted a 'trial run' because of the expense of helium and latex balloons this was our first attempt. The biggest problem we had was that we didn't inflate the balloons nearly enough so that the ratio of helium to rubber wasn't nearly as high as it should have been. Some of the smaller balloons wouldn't even come off the ground. My reason for not filling them to their capacity was that I was considering the void between the individual balloons. This, we found out was was a moot issue because the balloons will distort and compress themselves against each other within the confines of the outer sleeve effectively reducing this void.

With the effective lift capacity reduced by under inflated balloons that wouldn't even lift themselves, let alone their part of the payload, our 'observers' and their parachutes proved to be too heavy to go up - but their basket did. Another problem was that though the ingenious design of the Albert Caquot was that would fly like a kite in any wind at all, the wind absolutely died about the time we were making out attempt so to 'fly' it so one of the crew actually ran with the tether line putting it up very well. On cue, the RC planes attacked the balloon but the first attempt to 'set if on fire' (pull the rip cord to release the balloons) succeeding in only pulling the whole balloon down due to the release device being set too tight. On the second attempt, it worked perfectly and looked wonderful.

We learned a lot and will do it again, perhaps with perfect results. But for the first time, with no trials, we were elated!

Best,

Fred

**Oberst Hajj** · 09-28-2009 07:15

Glad to hear it went pretty good! A quick Google search did not show any videos up yet though

**Ritterton** · 09-28-2009 07:42

Sounds like a great success. CONGRATS TO THE BALLOON CREW! I think the report you provided is a great summary and I hope that soon there will be some video of both attempts. Well done and I can't wait for one of my YouTube searches to find the video!

Again, a big CONGRATS on the success you achieved. Well done!

jungclaus · 09-28-2009 13:24

Thanks for the compliment.
Attached are still. Video still yet to come

http://s963.photobucket.com/albums/ae112/jungclaus/

**Ritterton** · 09-28-2009 22:32

Great pictures. Thanks for sharing. Wow - had to be an awesome thing to see flying out on the field. Well done!

**Zeppelin** · 10-01-2009 15:57

Thanks for the balloon pictures jungclaus.

Hauptmann Wolff · 10-01-2009 20:09

Originally Posted by Ritterton

Would love to hear more from folks interested in these. I am also really wondering if a scaled floating replica could be recreated like some of the R/C models of the period that are 1/8th, 1/6 or 1/4th scale. Could be a fun project....

I too love these wonderful balloons! Being an R/C aeroplane pilot for decades, I always wanted to attempt making a zeppelin or balloon as a project. Myself and a fellow enthusiest actually sat down and looked at what it would take to do this, and our number one issue was ballasting. I'll have to revisit this again.

I have to admit though, as much as I too love ballons and zeppelins, as a flying machine pilot during the Great War, I would have to say my passion would be to try and bust as many of these beauties as possible. They are just too temping of a target...ground troop protection and all! I would be the German version of Frank Luke!

Great Thread! Prost!

**Ritterton** · 10-31-2009 13:44

Folks -

I wanted to be sure to post a reference that really needs to be known out there. Luftschiff Harry - he is a truly one THE experts on airships out there. His website is just a bit of a taste of what he has available on a DVD that he sells - the DVD is basically an HTML based series of pictures, articles, and the like that is like 9 GB of materials on zeppelins, airships, fessels, caquots, etc. Much of this material is not available elsewhere. Truly it is an incredible resource.

While the link to his site is in German he reads and writes in English. SO, if this is of interest to you, contact him you will truly be amazed at what this man knows!

http://www.luftschiffharry.de/

eMail ... luftschiffharry@email.de
eMail ... luftschiffharry@luftschiffharry.de
eMail ... luftschiffharry@luftschiffwaffe.de
eMail ... luftschiffharry@german-army-airships.org
eMail ... luftschiffharry@googlemail.com