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Thread: Forssman-Mannesmann Triplane

  1. #1

    Default Forssman-Mannesmann Triplane

    So, now I have a few to play with I need a card to fly them . . . hint, hint, nudge, nudge, you know what I mean.







    Clipper preparing for the best flying season EVER!

  2. #2

    Baldrick62's Avatar Site Librarian
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    From 'German Giants' (Haddow & Grosz, Putnam, 1988) - 'From the outset, the Poll Giant was intended as a long-range transport not bomber.' It was 'intended to fly to America and drop propaganda leaflets over the United States before that country enter (sic) the war.'
    Performance (estimated)
    Max Speed 130km/h (80.8mph)
    Landing speed 90-100km/h (56-62.5mph)

  3. #3

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    Wow! One of those would take up half of the table.

  4. #4

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    My research has revealed a darker purpose that junk mail, Guns: 2 Auto-cannons, 42 machine guns, crew 35, bomb load around 6,000 lbs! Sounds like a fun time!
    Clipper getting ready to finish the fleet . . . Where are those assembly elves now?

  5. #5

    Dom S's Avatar
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    Call me cynical, but 6000 pounds of bombs, a good few thousand of crew (a very optimistic 10 stone per man is 4900), nearly a thousand pounds of machine guns (and that's without mountings or ammo, or trying to figure out where to mount them all, especially as the Germans didn't really use twin mountings, so you have more guns than crew....) and a couple of cannon, all on an aircraft that was quite badly overweight itself, due to the extensive wooden construction? I think whoever wrote that specification was nuts, to be honest....

    (For comparison look at the post-war US Barling Bomber - that was rather smaller, with 7 crew, 7 MGs and 5000lb load, and was grossly underpowered. It had 2520hp; only 80 fewer horsepower than the Forssman....). TBH it's unlikely the Forssman would've gotten off of the ground at all, but with that armament, hell no.... As for going to New York with all that lot aboard, weeelllll.... Very nice model, but I'd stop adding machine gunners before you get to double figures....
    Last edited by Dom S; 08-03-2012 at 23:54.

  6. #6

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    That is an astounding model!

  7. #7

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    In one article I read about this might beast when I first saw clipper's thread pondering intent, included a quote that the design may have been a "paper tiger" (specifically a quote from the article) intended to be a threat and distraction for the western allies rather than an actual prototype. Further, an article (possibly the same, possibly another) stated that the front elevation of the plane resembled the appearance of registered trademark of the manufacturer/designer. I did a lot of googling to try to find an Mage of the trademark, without success.

    Apologies for the vague ramble and absence of references, but I'm away from home for a very busy (and back-breaking!) weekend in the west country loading and unloading furniture and heavy boxes in preparation for moving.

    Looking forward to seeing some actions involving this leviathan. With the hypothesized 30-odd machines guns, is the only non-suicidal way to bring it down to fly over it and bomb it in the air...?

  8. #8

    Dom S's Avatar
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    It was partially built; there are photos of the fuselage (which has no bomb bay....) knocking around, and I believe the IWM still has one of the wheels somewhere. So not just a paper exercise, but there's certainly nothing to support that armament claim - that was definitely someone's pipe dream. Given the performance of similar designs (eg. The 170 mile range with a full bomb load Barling and the never-got-off-the-ground Tarrant Tabor) I'd look at Paris at best, not New York, and delete at least two dozen of those machine guns, along with the cannon....
    Last edited by Dom S; 08-04-2012 at 00:18.

  9. #9

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    Ignoring the what if's of the technical side, it is still a magnificent model Clipper I am in awe of your tallent.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by clipper1801 View Post
    My research has revealed a darker purpose that junk mail, Guns: 2 Auto-cannons, 42 machine guns, crew 35, bomb load around 6,000 lbs!
    I quote Professor Lillomen from _High Anxiety_: "BOOLSHEET!" >;)

  11. #11

    Baldrick62's Avatar Site Librarian
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prodromoi View Post
    an article (possibly the same, possibly another) stated that the front elevation of the plane resembled the appearance of registered trademark of the manufacturer/designer.
    From German Giants - 'Fahrzeugbau Bruening's registered trademark was an exact front view of the Poll triplane. To utilize Bruening's woodworking skills and sell plywood, Forssman actively promoted the company through his design and patent office in Berlin.'

  12. #12

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    Great work again Clipper.

  13. #13

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    I really don't care if it couldn't (or possibly couldn't) take to the air with all that armament. I'd still make a card to play with it. What-ifs are what-ifs and fun is fun! Why not make an amazing scenario with the brute?!
    Last edited by Blackronin; 08-19-2012 at 02:48.

  14. #14

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    Stats for this giant assuming it can do all it's susposed to be able to do including getting of the ground empty or laden.
    Movement XA on Large Bomber base
    Guns Singles B Twins A Cannons C
    Climb Rate 10
    Ceiling 14
    Damage 35 to 40
    Anybody got other thoughts on this?
    Linz

  15. #15

    Default

    What would be the arcs?

  16. #16

    Default

    Arcs of fire would go from wing tip to gun position to wing tip of tail wing for all rear fuselage gun mounts.
    General rule with arcs of fire is that you do not fire between wings or across the fuselage wings or tailplane.
    Linz

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by clipper1801 View Post
    So, now I have a few to play with I need a card to fly them . . . hint, hint, nudge, nudge, you know what I mean.
    Well, it would be useful if someone provided a top down plan . . . hint, hint, nudge, nudge, you know what I mean.

  18. #18

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    So with the current rule set would the machine guns mounted in the fuselage have the range to clear the wing-tips?

  19. #19

    Default

    The 3-views on the "Then there were Giants" thread are the ones I used, with the raking back wing tips, see my build thread in the Hobby Room for colors and markings. These big birds do have that gun range dilemma to work through . . .



    Clipper

  20. #20

    Default

    Indeed.
    The range from the guns point to the plane is a fiddly one...

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by clipper1801 View Post
    The 3-views on the "Then there were Giants" thread are the ones I used, with the raking back wing tips, see my build thread in the Hobby Room for colors and markings. These big birds do have that gun range dilemma to work through . . .



    Clipper
    OK... this one's not leaping out at me - linky?

  22. #22

    Baldrick62's Avatar Site Librarian
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    The 'Google fu' is weak in this one!

    Try post #6 here: http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sho...ghlight=giants

  23. #23

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    Not at all. I searched the title given in Clipper's post and didn't turn anything up - not surprising since it wasn't the correct title. And let's be honest here, I wasn't going to spend ages trying to find it - after all, it's not me that wants a card for it

  24. #24

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    Clipper what We need is a photo of your plane in plan view. ie, looking from the top down. Like the avatar photos.
    If you could mark the gun positions we could then work out arcs of fire as well.
    Linz

  25. #25

    Baldrick62's Avatar Site Librarian
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    Quote Originally Posted by clipper1801 View Post
    My research has revealed a darker purpose that junk mail, Guns: 2 Auto-cannons, 42 machine guns, crew 35, bomb load around 6,000 lbs!
    'So here is a repeat of my research into the Triplane, check out this paper, it adds a lot of things the German Giants book did not include:

    https://ortus.rtu.lv/science/en/publ...of+World+War+I

    check the full document pdf and you will find some cool un-remembered details . . .

    or try this:

    https://ortus.rtu.lv/science/en/publ...5/fulltext.pdf

    I put the twin auto cannons facing forwards just for fun . . .

    Clipper thread traveling whilst on pretty paisley pills, where is Alice now?'


    Clipper,
    That's a fantastic research paper you've found by Mr Sollinger. But I have to wonder if there isn't some Baltic States nationalist spin regarding Herr Forssman's character and achievements, thereby making the fantastic Poll Giant a fantasy. I have nothing to back up this personal opinion other than healthy scepticism, so don't believe there is any right or wrong answer as such.

    The reality though, is that it never flew so neither structural integrity nor performance are known. By that stage of the war Germany was starved of resources, including aviation fuel, so as to make the flight of a Poll Giant (assuming the 'bomber' variant, of which there is no physical proof) a similar operation to the final sortie of the IJN battleship Yamato; a single throw of the dice to try to strategically influence the Allies of the futility of carrying on the war in the face of unsustainable personnel and materiel losses.

    Perhaps its all best left to Young Indiana Jones!
    BofB
    Last edited by Baldrick62; 08-19-2012 at 13:44. Reason: sp

  26. #26

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    Neither of these links works -- they both connect to the site's search page.

  27. #27

    Baldrick62's Avatar Site Librarian
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    Not sure what's happened there.
    I could get to the Sollinger paper on the 2nd link this morning , although the 1st was only to the search page. Now I get the search page for both too.

    I can still get to it from post #45 in this thread - http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sho...th-Three-Posts

    Or there's a copy of the PDF here - pub7345[1].pdf
    Last edited by Baldrick62; 08-19-2012 at 13:47. Reason: PDF added

  28. #28

    Default

    Maybe some things should not be found, was that Frodo, Bilbo orGandalf?

  29. #29

    Default

    Okay, as I'm assembling my Leviathan, I do have a few questions:

    1 – What was the final outcome for the dimensions of the base?
    2 – Does the base have the normal markings; i.e. center stripe in front with the arrow at the back?
    3 – Has a set of XA maneuver deck of cards been created?
    4 – I did find Steve's (Guntruck) playing cards (very nice by the way!) which I need to update to match the paint/lozenge scheme of my beast.

    So Steve, do you have those paying cards in a format that is easy to use in Photoshop CS2 for editing? And would it be possible to get?

  30. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by freebird-52 View Post
    Okay, as I'm assembling my Leviathan, I do have a few questions:


    So Steve, do you have those paying cards in a format that is easy to use in Photoshop CS2 for editing?
    Yes thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by freebird-52 View Post
    And would it be possible to get?
    Maybe..... maybe not.......



    Shoot me your email address

  31. #31

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    Thanks Steve for the playing cards and WOW! That's some layering you did on those babies!

    And if the base is the same as the card, it appears to be 3 inches by 4 inches...



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