Caproni Ca.3 paint schemes

So I would like to do several (6 or so) Capronis from the 1st Bombardment Squadron for a scenario I have in mind, and I need help with color schemes. I have the Ares Taramelli version, as well as the Aeronautica Militare version, both of which are painted and decaled for that squadron, but I am having a hard time finding more references for planes in that unit.

Does anyone have a site I could peruse, or perhaps a book I should look for? I'm fine painting the upper surfaces in some sort of mix between the two aircraft - Taramelli's is the hard-edged green camo over CDL, while the Aeronautica version is a dappling of greens and browns over CDL. But if there is any 'official' information on the color schemes of this squadron's planes, I'd sure like to follow it...

Perhaps some of our Italian members have access to information?

Any information would be most appreciated!

All the best,
Matt

A good collection of photos is at http://flyingmachines.ru/Site2/Arts/Art7281.htm

Windsock Profile 78 states that they were all in CDL apart from the last batch, which had disruptive cammo upper wings.
It also states that weathering caused marked differences in appearance, and aircraft had a vast variety of individual markings, so go by original photos.

Thanks for the information, Zoe - and the link has a ton of Caproni photos! :)

I know there are several Windsock publications covering the Caproni - I shall try and hunt a couple down for more specifics.

All the best,
Matt

I have been asked to do up a card for this plane:

Altaya 1:144 ADC033 Caproni Ca.3 1 Squadriglia, 4 Gruppo, Italy - Italian Aircraft Collection
Attachment 186789

This is my attempt:
Attachment 186790

Close enough, or more work needed?

Looks awesome to me, I sense a repaint in the Force . . .

I also could use this card . Looks great

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Originally Posted by clipper1801

Looks awesome to me, I sense a repaint in the Force . . .

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Eagerly awaiting photos! :sAprvd:

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Originally Posted by OldGuy59

I have been asked to do up a card for this plane:

Altaya 1:144 ADC033 Caproni Ca.3 1 Squadriglia, 4 Gruppo, Italy - Italian Aircraft Collection
Attachment 186789

This is my attempt:
Attachment 186790

Close enough, or more work needed?

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Looks good. The only little bit that catches my eye are the roundals. They don't go edge to edge on the model.

Make those roundels British and paint it PC10 I'd be interested Mike ! ;)
Attachment 186798

This Caproni is currently flying in my Caproni squadron, Mike - a card would be wonderful! This rendering above looks great:)

All the best,
Matt

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Originally Posted by flash

Make those roundels British and paint it PC10 I'd be interested Mike ! ;)
Attachment 186798

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I've never been able to find concrete proof the British used the CA.3.
Though it would be an interesting re-paint.

Plus wouldn't a British bomber use night roundals?

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Originally Posted by Foz

I've never been able to find concrete proof the British used the CA.3.
Though it would be an interesting re-paint. Plus wouldn't a British bomber use night roundals?

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To answer the above - They didn't Steve so there isn't any proof; yes it is an interesting repaint, I have two and we played them when we last met at WotSEII..I think you even shot one down..?!
And they might use night roundels if they were being used at night late in the war but they're not and as they're completely unofficial it doesn't matter ! :)

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Originally Posted by flash

To answer the above - They didn't Steve so there isn't any proof; yes it is an interesting repaint, I have two and we played them when we last met at WotSEII..I think you even shot one down..?!
And they might use night roundels if they were being used at night late in the war but they're not and as they're completely unofficial it doesn't matter ! :)

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You think like me. When history doesn't fit, it becomes a 'what if?'
Sticking to the books can be boring sometimes.

For the Roundels, I used this for a template, as it offers the best top-down view:
Attachment 186889
(Note: Original art for WWF card)

I only used the images I found online to match the camo colour, and missed the roundel size difference. This might be closer?
Attachment 186886

And what would this plane look like in RAF livery:
Attachment 186887

FYI Mike, the Roundel attachment is invalid. (on my MAC anyway)

Yeah, I had to Photoshop that image and reload it. Try now.

Great, I see all three now. Beautiful. As I have 2 all yellow and 2 all grey Capronis this is incentive to paint a couple of them up.

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Originally Posted by Foz

You think like me. When history doesn't fit, it becomes a 'what if?'
Sticking to the books can be boring sometimes.

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Abso-bloody-lutely ! It was the only way I was going to fit a Ca3 into my gaming so thought why not ! That proved the same with my SPAD XII...can see that getting a run out against the Staaken !

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Originally Posted by OldGuy59

...And what would this plane look like in RAF livery:
Attachment 186887

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Just the ticket Mike ! :thumbsup:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OldGuy59

This might be closer?
Attachment 186886

And what would this plane look like in RAF livery:
Attachment 186887

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Both spot on. :sAprvd::drinks:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by flash

Abso-bloody-lutely ! It was the only way I was going to fit a Ca3 into my gaming so thought why not ! That proved the same with my SPAD XII...can see that getting a run out against the Staaken !

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Spad XIIs were used, I remember reading a potted history of Guynemer having one.

:salute:

These look great, Mike - the PC10 version is very nice!

All the best,
Matt

Draft attempt
Attachment 186896

Management card to follow. Other cards could be made, if there was some info provided?

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Originally Posted by Foz

..Spad XIIs were used, I remember reading a potted history of Guynemer having one...

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Yes indeed they were but not by the RAF ! ;)

The card is looking great!:sAprvd:

All the best,
Matt

And the Management Card...

Attachment 186897

Superb, now to try again to persuade my printer it does like 300gsm card!

Good work, Mike! :thumbsup:

These look wonderful, Mike - you always do such excellent work with these cards!:):sAprvd:

All the best,
Matt

David [clipper1801] has this plane in his inventory, someplace?

Link: Ares Caproni Ca-3 Repaint !!!

Attachment 186969

Attachment 186970

The drawings had the front machine gun position removed, and from the descriptions, the rear gun was also taken off. There were only two crew, and with the torpedo, the plane was 700kgs over it's max weight on take-off. I think the management card should probably show the co-pilot as the tail gunner, if we go by the descriptions.

PS: So, no-one wants to post up squadron and crew info for other paint schemes? Don't make me scour the internet for this, guys. I'll do it for David, cause I owe him wwaaaayyyy too much for the Glorious and planes.

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Originally Posted by OldGuy59

Attachment 186897

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Why does this paint scheme make me think of "chicken with spinach"?

I'll dig out my Caproni book and see if they list any crews for the 1st Squadron of the IV Group, Mike...didn't mean to leave you hanging on your lovely card...:p

All the best,
Matt

For the CDL crowd?

Attachment 186992

Attachment 186993

Captain Ercole Ercole (Hercules Hercules) makes Frank Luke look like a "kitten".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OldGuy59

PS: So, no-one wants to post up squadron and crew info for other paint schemes? Don't make me scour the internet for this, guys...

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If you do a PC10 version Mike, please make it 109 sqn No 41 Wing. 109 sqn was to be a DH9 bomber squadron but were disbanded without becoming operational so ideal candidates for my Ca3 unit. Not worried about pilots as I have a need for two cards so 'unknown crew' fits the bill for me.

109 Squadron badge heraldry: A panther rampant, incensed.
The black panther indicates night hunting and the attitude of the animal symbolises attack
Motto: Latin: Primi hastati ("The first of the legion")

No 41 Wing was formed in October 1917 to attack strategic targets in Germany.
Consisting of No55 Sqn (DH-4), No100 sqn(FE-2b) and No16 (Naval) Sqn (Handley Page 0/100).
The Wing was based at Ochey commanded by Lt-Colonel Cyril Newall. Its first attack was on Saarbrücken on 17 October with 11 DH-4s and a week later nine 0/100s carried out a night attack against factories in Saarbrücken, while 16 FE-2b's bombed railways nearby. Four aircraft failed to return.
The Wing was expanded with the later addition of Nos 99 and 104 Squadrons, both flying the DH-4 into the Independent Air Force.
The Independent Air Force (IAF), also known as the Independent Force or the Independent Bombing Force and later known as the Inter-Allied Independent Air Force, was the First World War strategic bombing force which was part of the Royal Air Force and was used to strike against German railways, aerodromes, and industrial centres without co-ordination with the Army or Navy.

The Independent Air Force eventually consisted of nine squadrons of aircraft which were equipped with:
DH4s, DH9s and DH.9As; Handley Page 0/400s; FE2bs & Sopwith Camels for escort duties

No 41 Wing was split into two wings to form VIII Brigade and comprised Nos 55, 99 and 104 Squadrons responsible for day-bombing, with the 83rd Wing consisted of two night-bombing squadrons, (No 100 and No 216). Additional squadrons were added to the IAF before the Armistice; Nos 97, 115 and 215 Squadrons (equipped with the new Handley-Page 0/400 bomber) and No 110 Squadron with the DH-9A operational through the summer of 1918.

I think my Ca3's of 109 sqn would fit in that little lot quite nicely ;)

Wonderful work guys! At 59 years old and a WWI enthusiast for over 55, I have to admit this is one of my favorite airframes and I only got to know it in the last 5 years on this site! There is a great painting of it in action over the mountains on Deviant Art somewhere . . . and Mike, thanks for your art!

RAF "What-if" colour scheme:

Attachment 187026

Attachment 187027

Hey, Mike,

It turns out that the Caproni model for which you've done the 'mottled' card above has the same serial number as the Taramelli 1a Squadriglia Bombardamento plane from Ares...:p

Doing the card up as an 'unknown crew' designation would be fine - I know I've seen a couple other crew listings for the squadron somewhere online, but I can't find them right now - silly me forgot to bookmark them for future reference...You could label it 1a Squadriglia IV Gruppo, but leave the crew unknown...

I will keep looking to see if I can find real pilots/crew.

All the best,
Matt

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Originally Posted by OldGuy59

RAF "What-if" colour scheme:

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Those are just the ticket Mike, thank you very much for that :hatsoff:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by clipper1801

Wonderful work guys! At 59 years old and a WWI enthusiast for over 55, I have to admit this is one of my favorite airframes and I only got to know it in the last 5 years on this site! There is a great painting of it in action over the mountains on Deviant Art somewhere . . . and Mike, thanks for your art!

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Is this the Deviant Art painting? http://www.deviantart.com/art/Pioneer-Sky-52361901

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Originally Posted by Biggles downunder

Is this the Deviant Art painting? http://www.deviantart.com/art/Pioneer-Sky-52361901

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YES! It was my screensaver for several months! Awesome rendering and the detail of the focus on the crew is outstanding, those guys had guts! Thanks for finding it again!

Just chasing information on the image, and found this:

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According to Roberto Gentilli and Paolo Varriale ("I Reparti dell'Aviazione Italiana nella Grande Guerra", page 125), 4164 was not assigned to 7a Squadriglia, but to 11a squadriglia, and flown in Albania. It was shot down by the A-H ace Bela Makourek on the 6th July 1918. The Ca. 3 crew was Ten. Antonio Magnacavallo, Sgt. Giovanbattista Boero, Ten. Manlio Candela and Cap. Leonardo Giuliano, who all perished. The bomber's inscriptions were "Piave" and "Osum" (the latter being the name of an Albanian river), two rivers where Italian troops demonstrated their gallantry. 4164 was shot down after having bombed Metali: it was hit in the almost empty fuel tanks and exploded in flight.

Usually, Ca 3s were armed with Revelli machine guns (Aeroclub have a nice rendition of them in white metal), but some aircraft could have used Villar Perosa guns, too. Usually, the rear gunner's position was equipped with just one gun, to save weight, but on some occasions double Revellis were carried in that position, while the three gun arrangement was experimental.
Source: Parts translated from Russian Scalemodels.ru -Caproni Ca.3 1:72 Choroszy Modelbud

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So, an example of a CDL paint scheme, with unit and crew. Yet another ill-fated 11a Sqn crew, it seems.

Also, an example for the "BOOM Card" detractors.