1/144 model vs cards

[Kwakelee]

I know this probably has been asked a thousand times, but I could not find it so here it does; When using 1/144 scale models as the miniatures do the maneuver card decks need any adjustment ie scaled up or are they fine as is.

[usmc1855]

The miniatures, specifically the miniatures bases, where designed/produced at the same size as the airplane cards that come with the maneuver decks, therefore, the miniatures and the maneuver cards are at a mutual scale for using together.

[Oberst Hajj]

If you were talking about using 1/144 scale models for the WWII planes, there are some visual issues with it. Here is what Andrea said when I asked him about the change between using 1/144 scale for WWI and 1/200 scale for WWII....



The size of 1/144 WWI miniatures allows for a great detail and we managed to take advantage of it: you can read "Nemo me impune lacessit" at the back of Olieslagers on his camel, if you look well at that two white lines behind his seat. But the larger the models are, the more they tend to "collide" with other models during the game, and to make unrealistic tight turns on the table. When we had to decide about WW2 planes, we opted for a 1/200 scale since a WW2 miniature fighter has then nearly the same size of a WW1 one: collision problems are not increased and the effect of turns is less unrealistic."
See also the photos attached: "Size between two German fighters of different world wars become comparable thanks to the different scale".
All the best!
Andrea

[kaufschtick]

I know this probably has been asked a thousand times, but I could not find it so here it does; When using 1/144 scale models as the miniatures do the maneuver card decks need any adjustment ie scaled up or are they fine as is.

I've been using 1/144 scale planes for well over a year now, and I have had no problem what-so-ever with them, and have made no "special" adjustments to the game at all in doing so.:)

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t163/kaufschtick/144new058-1.jpg

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t163/kaufschtick/144new059-1.jpg

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t163/kaufschtick/144new060-1.jpg

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t163/kaufschtick/144new057-1.jpg

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t163/kaufschtick/144new061-1.jpg

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t163/kaufschtick/144new062-1.jpg

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t163/kaufschtick/144new064-1.jpg

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t163/kaufschtick/144new063-1.jpg

[Gravitypool]

I use 1/285 scale planes as they are the same size as the image depicting them on the cards and do not bo beyond the border of the WoW base... it's just another option.

[Roger Wilco]

I have used 1/144 for WWII for over a year too, all combat is measured to the bases in our games so size is not really an issue. Some larger models create some minor overlap issues more often than when using just fighters, but if you use different heights for the models then most issues are eliminated upfront, or simply by briefly removing the model and peg risers and leaving the base behind on the table when it gets too tricky is our last resort. Its a bit hard to substitute the model for a card when its a model of a "Betty or a Ju88" as there are no "Betty or Ju88" cards at present.

[LewdDude]

only an issue if you have to substitute a card for a mini as far as I can see. I don't use the cards, so size is no issue for me.

[b_fortner]

Kaufschtick,
I just have to say those are some lovely models you're gaming with - the photos really show off their detail quite remarkably.

Thanks for sharing.

[Roger Wilco]

To tell the truth we never actually substitute minis for cards either.

[richard m schwab]

Here are some shots of an He-100 on a Litko base. They work great. Included
a shot of Litkos`s new AFS03 set.

[Oberst Hajj]

What are you using the blue one for... engine damage?

[ff151]

WoW I love those smoke and flame markers ! The person that put up the pipe cleaner ones were awesome as well! Hummmmmmmmm, now I can't decide :(

FF

P.s. If you are using the blue one for engine damage, isn't that supposed to be secret?

[richard m schwab]

Yes Col. Yes the blue ones are for engine damage. I will just going to square and lengthen the notch to improve fit.
Glade you like them.

[Oberst Hajj]

Yeah, engine damage should be hidden.

[richard m schwab]

You are correct. But they come with the set, so i showed them!

[Werwulf]

I have used 1/144 for WWII for over a year too, all combat is measured to the bases in our games so size is not really an issue. Some larger models create some minor overlap issues more often than when using just fighters, but if you use different heights for the models then most issues are eliminated upfront, or simply by briefly removing the model and peg risers and leaving the base behind on the table when it gets too tricky is our last resort. Its a bit hard to substitute the model for a card when its a model of a "Betty or a Ju88" as there are no "Betty or Ju88" cards at present.


So what bases do you use from the WOW line? Just whatever is on hand? Also, has someone done stats fro all WWII aircraft yet?

[richard m schwab]

Some shots of 1:144 scale planes on Litko flight Bases. The B-29 was a $2.00
flea market buy, no decals. The Emily is a kit also. The Sally`s are a kit and Big Birds. These are steady bases give them a try!

[Werwulf]

Richard, how high are the posts on the litko bases? Are they REALLY sturdy enough for the Super Fort? The Emily, is it the LS or Arri kit?

[richard m schwab]

They are the 3 inch but the 6 inch is just as stable. It is an LS kit but Big Bird has them out now.That was six months after i built this one.
I am going to use the six inch in games to give room move the smaller planes around them. The FM-2 is on a 3" while the Emily is on a 6" flight peg.

[Oberst Hajj]

The real problem with the WoW or Litko bases for larger models like bombers is you can not get the correct firing arcs shown on the small bases. But I'm working on a professional solution to that as I type ;)

[Charlie3]

Our WoW group uses the cards when we have overlap situations that are more than just a corner or edge. If a model gets in the way we have also just removed it from the stand temporaraly. Really since all ranges to target are measured from the peg and the orginal rules state to target the stand or card edges (I know some of you target the model) we really only need the stands and pegs anyway. The planes themselves are just a great bonus visual, and the size does not really matter except for the "feel" of distance. Let's face it our movements are still only a card length plus a stand!

I have been drooling over the pictures from those of you that have all the WWII 1/144 scale models in flight. I had a pile of these models at one time and sold them all because I felt they were too small and continued modeling in 1/48 scale. Go figure!

[richard m schwab]

Yes card substitution is the easy way to handle that. I had not built a non train model in 35 years. I started collecting the 144 to use with my N scale trains. Then i saw DOW was coming out so i started building them. My talent
is minimal but i try. My friends in IPMS may find fault ,but they are gaming pieces to me. I have friends who refer to 1:48 as plumber scale.

[richard m schwab]

What were your thoughts concerning bomber firing arcs and their presentation? What was you solution?

[Oberst Hajj]

Richard,

Below is the base that I have sorted out for my first bomber, a Japanese twin engine Ki-21 "Sally". I've also included the reference data sheet I've used to draw up the fire arcs from as well as talked to an "expert" on Japanese planes.

I am having the base laser cut out of clear Plexiglas. The red cross in this image is where the flight peg hole will be located (also laser cut). The arrow at the top and the triangle and box on the bottom will be laser etched into the base. The box is a convenient placement guide for the decals I am going to make up for gun types and such. The triangle of course is for movement along with the arrow up top (I can't copy Nexus' WoW base exactly). The ring and numbers around the flight peg marking are also going to be laser etched into the base. These will be used for tracking altitude with a pair of dials. These dials will work for altitude and either rate of climb or fuel.

Starting at the bottom of the base, the first narrow (30*) arc is for the rear gun. The next one up is for the belly gun and it has an arc of 60*. The next one up is a little different. It is the top turret so has a 360* field of fire for any thing 1 altitude level higher. At the same altitude, the firing arc to the rear stops at the dotted lines (clearing the tail). For this gun, you will see two sets of hash marks out on the firing circle. Between these hash marks the gun can shoot 1 level below the plane. Finally, the very top arc is for the front gun and is 120*. The Sally is also said to have side guns, but I've found conflicting info about them and where they are located at. It appears that guns could be placed in small openings in the rear door and a window on the other side. I'm leaning towards leaving these off since they would have been "free fire" guns and not really mounted or normally manned.

Here are some screen shots for a Sally (the green house version, not the turreted version I've made this base for) from LI-2...

http://www.wingwalkers.org/vault/sandman/images/ki21_ii_02.jpg

http://www.wingwalkers.org/vault/sandman/images/ki21_ii_01.jpg

http://www.wingwalkers.org/vault/sandman/images/ki21_i_01.jpg

I'll be working on the Japanese G4M Betty and B-24J bases next.

[richard m schwab]

That looks good Col. Is that a local outfit doing the work for you?
As you see i have a Sally collection to use that base.

[Oberst Hajj]

Yes, it's a local plastic place. I'm having 10 of the twin-engine bomber bases cut out with out firing arcs etched on them right now. Need to test them out and every thing and then decide if it is cost effective to do arced ones for all the different bombers out there. I should have the first bases (including some of my own fighter plane base designs) in hand tomorrow or Thursday at the latest. I'll be sure to share some photos. If every thing goes well, I plan to offer these through the site.

[richard m schwab]

The owner of local gaming shop in Dayton Ohio told me he knew someone who would make custom bases like your ordering. Who did you find them? Yellow pages?

[Oberst Hajj]

It is a plastic place I've used for other things before and the last time I was in there they had sign up saying the did laser stuff. For just a few pieces, it's kind of expensive though. I've got some pretty interesting and exciting news in the area of bases to announce pretty soon......

[darkeldar70]

hi any one can say me how i can buy 1/144 models

[ara398]

Hi Christian!

You could start with a search on ebay for:

"1/144* -macross -gundam"

The asterisk (*) is in case of sellers that type "1/144th".
The -macross - gundam removes these items from the search - they are japanese robot/mecha kits and 1/144 is a popular scale for them (and there are a LOT of them on ebay!)

Hope this helps.

Adrian

[richard m schwab]

Christian!

Here is a link to a good source for 144 scale planes!:) I have dealt with them and they are quick and reliable. You might also check a good Hobby Shop you might find them there. Here is a link also to Hobby Link Japan a good sourse also!:)
Rich


http://www.hlj.com/product/FTS60095




http://stores.ebay.com/7TOYS7_WWI-II-Japan_W0QQ_fsubZ16791350QQ_sidZ5821466QQ_trksidZp4634Q2ec0Q2em14?_trksid=p4634.c0.m14.l1581&_pgn=2

[Oberst Hajj]

You could also start with reading the Sticky thread (http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/showthread.php?t=771) in this section of the site.

[darkeldar70]

Richard,

Below is the base that I have sorted out for my first bomber, a Japanese twin engine Ki-21 "Sally". I've also included the reference data sheet I've used to draw up the fire arcs from as well as talked to an "expert" on Japanese planes.

I am having the base laser cut out of clear Plexiglas. The red cross in this image is where the flight peg hole will be located (also laser cut). The arrow at the top and the triangle and box on the bottom will be laser etched into the base. The box is a convenient placement guide for the decals I am going to make up for gun types and such. The triangle of course is for movement along with the arrow up top (I can't copy Nexus' WoW base exactly). The ring and numbers around the flight peg marking are also going to be laser etched into the base. These will be used for tracking altitude with a pair of dials. These dials will work for altitude and either rate of climb or fuel.

Starting at the bottom of the base, the first narrow (30*) arc is for the rear gun. The next one up is for the belly gun and it has an arc of 60*. The next one up is a little different. It is the top turret so has a 360* field of fire for any thing 1 altitude level higher. At the same altitude, the firing arc to the rear stops at the dotted lines (clearing the tail). For this gun, you will see two sets of hash marks out on the firing circle. Between these hash marks the gun can shoot 1 level below the plane. Finally, the very top arc is for the front gun and is 120*. The Sally is also said to have side guns, but I've found conflicting info about them and where they are located at. It appears that guns could be placed in small openings in the rear door and a window on the other side. I'm leaning towards leaving these off since they would have been "fee fire" guns and not really mounted or normally manned.

Here are some screen shots for a Sally (the green house version, not the turreted version I've made this base for) from LI-2...

http://www.wingwalkers.org/vault/sandman/images/ki21_ii_02.jpg

http://www.wingwalkers.org/vault/sandman/images/ki21_ii_01.jpg

http://www.wingwalkers.org/vault/sandman/images/ki21_i_01.jpg

I'll be working on the Japanese G4M Betty and B-24J bases next.

where you find this card with the tecnical data? there are also of other planes?

[Oberst Hajj]

I made the "card" and base based on a lot of research. One of the sources I found was a US war time intelligence publication on Japanese aircraft during WWII. It gave data on machine gun coverage and locations in detail.

[BeastlyHun]

I know this probably has been asked a thousand times, but I could not find it so here it does; When using 1/144 scale models as the miniatures do the maneuver card decks need any adjustment ie scaled up or are they fine as is.

fyi, 1/144 scale is suited to the Standard inches/feet and 1/200 scale is suited to Metric cm/meters. where 1" = 144" = 12 feet; where 1 cm = 200 cm = 2 meters.
1/72 and 1/48 are such popular plastic model scales because they scale nicely to feet: where 1" = 72" = 6 ft; where 1" = 48" = 4 ft;

[Jimmy Doolittle]

I know this probably has been asked a thousand times, but I could not find it so here it does; When using 1/144 scale models as the miniatures do the maneuver card decks need any adjustment ie scaled up or are they fine as is.

Yes, you do need to rescale the movement, so it precisely shows the plane's characteristics.

[greenalfonzo]

hi any one can say me how i can buy 1/144 models

This is a good site that covers all releasese of 1/144 military aircraft and other equipment: http://kampfgruppe144.blogspot.com/

There is a really good discussion forum attached to it as well: http://www.kampfgruppe144.com/phpBB3/index.php

[richard m schwab]

Kev!

You are correct it is a great place for information!

Rich

[Paisan]

I have been drooling over the pictures from those of you that have all the WWII 1/144 scale models in flight. I had a pile of these models at one time and sold them all because I felt they were too small and continued modeling in 1/48 scale. Go figure!
I just posted on the WWI General Discussion about using larger models to play. How many 1/48 models do you have? Have you ever considered using them to game with? Hahahaha, that would look awesome - if you had a gymnasium!

[Lloydthegamer]

How stable is the Emily on this base? I'd be worried that it'd be awful top heavy and tip over easily. Love your models. Lloyd

[richard m schwab]

Loyd!

That was for photo demonstration only, but it is stable! Below is max`s Emily card! I normally adjust the size so that a two engine plane has a double with base and three engine a three wide base. four wide for a four engine bomber!

Here are some shots using them in games!

Rich


http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/album.php?albumid=122&attachmentid=5939

[Lloydthegamer]

Very nice, and very impressive. I've just finished 4 B25s and would like to get them into a game soon. What do you make the bomber bases from? Those aren't made be Likto are they? Thanks again for the inspiration! Lloyd

[richard m schwab]

Loyd!

I made mine from old scrap foam core originally and then old CD cases! I do use Litko toppers and flight pegs! Are doing 144 or 200 scale?

Rich

[Lloydthegamer]

Foam core and CD cases, well now that is a creative way of getting bases. I'm going to have to try it. I'm doing 1/144. I started collecting them for other rule sets and don't want to switch to 1/200 now. Lloyd

[richard m schwab]

Loyd!

Follow the link for other bomber base ideas!


Rich

http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/showthread.php?6908-Building-Bomber-Bases-on-a-Budget&highlight=bomber+bases

[BobP]

Glad I stumbled into this thread. I wasn't paying attention the the WWII planes are 1/200 scale. Explains why the FToy (1/!44) I just bought are bigger.